You know how it is, back to work tomorrow so none of us are feeling terrifically (sp?) upbeat, plus I've been on call since last Wednesday and the phone's been going this evening, so I'm tied to the PC when I could be watching Silent Witness (large helpings or irony there)
Anyway, browsing the web whilst awaiting a highly unlikely response from a customer to confirm that a proble is solved, I clicked on the wrong button on the BBC website and ended up doing a survey on diversity - not an issue,if they ask I'll gladly offer an opinion. At the end, you get the usual question so they can stuff you in a category - age,gender, etc, but there where a few that rasied the eyebrows.
Gender - OK
Have you retained the gender you were born with ?
Do you plan to retain the gender you were born with ?
Do you adopt roles outside the gender you were born with ?
These seem just a little more specific that the average survey qualifiers, so I told them I was a mixed race Hindu male lesbian, just to skew the results
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They will probably just disregard your answers :).
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They'll probably want to make a TV programme about you!
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You'll probably get a job reading the News.
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I make a point of lying whenever I am asked to take part in a survey.
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>> I make a point of lying whenever I am asked to take part in a survey.
I'm confused.
Are you lying now, or not?
There must be a logical answer, but it's beyond me at the moment..
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Oy, some of us have had hardly any time off matey..:-)
No worse than my response to any prying forms for the last 35 years.
When you get to the questions that really want to pigeon hole you in social standing but ask for your job description, i put a cross through all the statutory answers and write 'scum of the earth lorry driver'.
There now i've admitted it, i wonder if anyone here has ever seen it on a form.
:-)
To a more serious point i find many forms extremely colour prejudiced and if i were of colour or exotic race would feel aggrieved, i've raised this point many times at the sharp end and have found most who have to administer them agree with me.
I refer to the ethnic origin questions...
usually along the lines of 'are you North European white' or some such...one box to tick.
If you happen to be of other colour/race they want to know the ins and out of the cats backside with more possibilities than you can shake a stick at, but white skinned?, just tick the one box.
I refuse to answer that question as i feel unjustly 'favoured?' for being white.
Is it just me who feels this is plain wrong in imbalance.
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All forms of that nature that appear in this household get the hot treatment PDQ.
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Always fun with mailshot questionnaires to return them in the wrong envelopes... (where possible)
Also good fun with all other junk mail - with or without prepaid envelopes....
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>> Lie to them.
WHAT? PU! and you a census officer!
Time to brush off the Jedi Knight answer.
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>Gender - OK
>Have you retained the gender you were born with ?
>Do you plan to retain the gender you were born with ?
>Do you adopt roles outside the gender you were born with ?
Cookies? ;-)
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"Have you retained the gender you were born with ?"
On a slight tangent, while on one of my rare visits to the doctor I noticed that the next line down on the drop down menu on his screen was "gender re-assignment". I watched VERY carefully while he clicked.
John
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I invariably put in wrong information where necessary.
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I do not wish to be enumerated on a census, nor do I wish to be on the electoral register.
Damned snooping "guvmint"!
I'm pleased I will be able to have some fun with the sales agency working on behalf of the TV tax. As I am over 75 I won't have to pay it, but I sure as heck won't give any information about that to the prying people at Comet/Curry's/ Argos etc when I buy a television receiving apparatus!
Lawful rebellion - be a Freeman of the Land!
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 5 Jan 11 at 00:59
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...I do not wish to be enumerated on a census, nor do I wish to be on the electoral register...
landsker,
Do you wish to take advantage of the health service?
Claim state pension?
Or benefit from the hundreds of other services provided by the state?
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Yes, but appearance on the electoral roll is not essential for NHS or pension.
I just object to one's life being laid bare to interfering busybodies, from CCTV to purchasing habits, by loyalty card, etc. etc.
"You can stick your CCTV, Police State, wheelie bin Stasi, DNA, WMD, “Social Cohesion”, benefits for all, guilty until proved innocent, don’t do that it’s illegal now, can’t say that, ID cards for all, where are you going, what have you been saying/doing/reading, can’t photograph that, how very dare you, golliwog banning, we know where you live, we’re watching you Soviet Utopia up your backsides. Sideways."
Old Holborn - political and Libertarian blogger.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 5 Jan 11 at 00:59
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...Yes, but appearance on the electoral roll is not essential for NHS or pension...
OK, do you wish the Land Registry to record your good title to the house you are about to buy?
I appreciate you are not being entirely serious, but the electoral roll is an important part of our democracy.
The census may assist the 'state' - in all its forms - to provide the services on which we all depend.
Deliberately messing around people who are just doing their job is childish.
If you want to protest, paint a banner and march down Whitehall.
In other words, direct your ire at those who can do something about it, not those who cannot.
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>OK, do you wish the Land Registry to record your good title to the house you are about to buy?
Not necessary. My house could be owned by a Cayman Island holding Co. for all LR care.
Trivia fact - LR operate the largest (unclassified) DB2 database in Europe.
>I appreciate you are not being entirely serious, but the electoral roll is an important part of our democracy.
Only for gerrymandering politicians and postal vote frauds. When was the last time you were asked to prove your identity for the register? You need more proof to buy a mobile phone than to vote.
>The census may assist the 'state' - in all its forms - to provide the services on which we all depend.
The census results used to be important but have been abused for spiteful party political means for years. I don't want to "assist" them in that process.
>Deliberately messing around people who are just doing their job is childish.
Now you really are taking the P. Our public servants have developed "messing around people who are just doing their job" into a fine art!
>If you want to protest, paint a banner and march down Whitehall.
But don't annoy our politicians too much.
They just might reintroduce parts of the Serious and Organised Crime Act 2005 that made it illegal to protest within half a mile of Parliament without Police permission.
>In other words, direct your ire at those who can do something about it, not those who cannot.
Those who "can" do something about it won't stop until they are forced to accept that their intrusion is an inaccurate and expensive waste of time.
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...OK, do you wish the Land Registry to record your good title to the house you are about to buy?...
My only point is people who claim to have a rebellious attitude want everything nailed down when it's in their interests.
Pure hypocrisy.
...prove identity to vote...
Depends what you mean by prove. I am regularly asked to compile a list of eligible voters in a letter posted through the front door.
If I didn't have access to the house side of the door, I wouldn't get the letter. There may be some other cross-referencing for all I know.
...Deliberately messing around people who are just doing their job is childish...Now you really are taking the P...
The poster was talking about refusing to co-operate with prying staff at Argos, Currys etc.
What do they care? He's just a nuisance customer.
...Those who "can" do something about it won't stop until they are forced to accept that their intrusion is an inaccurate and expensive waste of time...
If you want to give up your protest before you even start, that's up to you.
But don't expect to get very far.
Do you think women got the vote by asking politely?
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>My only point is people who claim to have a rebellious attitude want everything nailed down..
That's not what you said.
>Pure hypocrisy.
Nope. Politicians have a patent on that.
>I am regularly asked to compile a list of eligible voters in a letter posted through the front door.
Wow! What proof do you have to give that they are eligible to vote? Birth certificate, passport, photo-id or absolutely FA?
>The poster was talking about refusing to co-operate with prying staff at Argos, Currys etc.
You replied to landsker's post not the OP. Do you want me to explain why an online survey by the BBC on "Diversity" is worthless?
>What do they care? He's just a nuisance customer.
A customer that keeps your business in profit (or you in a job) is a nuisance?
>If you want to give up your protest before you even start, that's up to you.
Making their efforts worthless is much more effective than throwing your toys out of the pram and crying "unfair". Believe me.
>But don't expect to get very far.
>Do you think women got the vote by asking politely?
Let's see how far the student protests get shall we?
Wanna bet?
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....The poster was talking about refusing to co-operate with prying staff at Argos, Currys etc...You replied to landsker's post not the OP....
Kevin,
Eh? It was landsker who posted (boasted) about acting up in Currys etc in supposed defence of his privacy.
And such people are a nuisance, not to say an embarrassment to all around them.
You seem to make great play about all protests being doomed to failure.
So you're a quitter, but others have not been.
Plenty of protests have failed, equally plenty have succeeded, or are at least had some influence.
Votes for women is one, more recently the poll tax was rejected by popular protest.
At local level there are any number of issues over which protests have had a big impact.
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>Eh? It was landsker who posted (boasted) about acting up in Currys etc in supposed defence of his privacy.
>And such people are a nuisance, not to say an embarrassment to all around them.
What the heck are you blabbering about Iffy?
Landsker simply said that he wasn't going to tell a sales assistant his age when he bought another TV. I think that it is rather rude of you to accuse him of "acting up" and being "an embarrassment to all around" when you have obviously, deliberately or otherwise, misinterpreted his words.
>You seem to make great play about all protests being doomed to failure.
You completely miss my point that there is more than one way to skin a cat and some methods are more effective than others. In the case of intrusive data collection, making the data obviously innacurate and useless would appear to have a much better chance of success than chaining yourself to railings.
>So you're a quitter, but others have not been.
You're at it again Iffy.
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Hey GB! We has annuver bruvver!!
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>> Hey GB! We has annuver bruvver!!
>>
Hell yeah bro, and i'm much obliged to me learned friend Lansker for pointing out a blog worth reading...Old Holborn is on my favourite's list.
For those who haven't ventured there yet please do.
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>> I do not wish to be enumerated on a census, nor do I wish to
>> be on the electoral register.
Sometimes it's necessary to give accurate information - but as little as necessary.
>> Damned snooping "guvmint"!
Absolutely. Your name is likely to be on tens of dozens of databases.
>> I'm pleased I will be able to have some fun with the sales agency working
>> on behalf of the TV tax.
So do I. At the moment, I'm a Professor with certain other details, although I have prevoiusly been a Mr., Dr. and a Rev'd. (oh, and ms/miss etc.).
>> won't give any information about that to the prying people at
>> Comet/Curry's/Argos etc when I buy a television receiving apparatus!
They are required to solicit the information. You are not required to give accurate information.
>> Lawful rebellion - be a Freeman of the Land!
;)
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 5 Jan 11 at 01:00
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Interesting.
This raises several issues (and I don't mean 'problems') - the first of which is the reassignment of the word 'gender' - a grammatical term - to mean 'sex'. (This is something that we pedants take strong exception to.) To use the word 'gender' to mean 'sex' is fine if used in a jocular fashion, or as slang, but for the BBC to so misuse it in a serious survey is not acceptable.
For the record, I've reassigned genders many times - usually when on holiday in France. I've also had my own gender reassigned on occasion - usually by Hungarian speakers.
The other issue, of course, is the growing annoyance that some of us have about being asked to give certain information about ourselves - particularly when this information seems to be requested in the name of what is now known as 'diversity'. This trend has come on fairly quickly in the last 10 years. In 2001, I was happy to answer all the questions on the census. This year, I shall be a lot more reluctant to give information which seems to be requested to enable the state to dabble in yet more social engineering. I suspect that I'll not be the only one.
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>> I do not wish to be enumerated on a census, nor do I wish to
>> be on the electoral register.
>> Damned snooping "guvmint"!
You should vote, even if you only spoil your paper in protest. And your ancestors might want to know about you in 100 years time, once you have sown your seed, and popped your clogs. Even if your seed falls on fallow ground, decendents of your siblings and/or cousins might be interested. Census data is sealed for 100 years by law. The electoral register is public, but you can request to be removed from the public version, so as not to get junk mail etc. I think it disgraceful that companies have access to the public version of the electoral register.
I have traced my family back to 1840 in the censuses and I am glad they were recorded, even if most were down as cretins and agricultural labourers. I now point to my genes as an excuse. "Weren't me wot did it guv, it was me genes, innit."
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I do not wish to be enumerated on a census, nor do I wish to
>> be on the electoral register.
>> Damned snooping "guvmint"!
Pay your £1,000 fine then.
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Pay your £1,000 fine then.
The fact that you can actually be fined £1000 for resisting snooping government, something that harms no-one, and that most people in this country apparently don't find this shocking, is a little worrying.
It is interesting to read what Nick Hurd, now Minister for Civil Society (an odd title, if ever I heard one) said about this a year ago, when in opposition: "Labour’s plans for the next Census threaten to destroy public support. It is so intrusive and bloated that I fear many people will simply throw it in the bin or skim over the questions. The Government’s response of hiring an army of census police will alarm law-abiding families and shows how Labour have no concern for civil liberties. Just because Ministers have legal powers to fine people £1,000 for not answering does not mean it’s right for the state to bully householders and threaten to drag them to court. This is yet another sign of the bully boy state that Labour have created and the gradual criminalisation of middle Britain, fining families for the most minor of breaches of state-imposed rules.”"
I wonder what he is going to say, now that he is in government.
More here: tinyurl.com/y8l6uyu
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I am still sure exactly what people find so upsetting about the census. We have had a census since 1841 and it has always been mandatory. It has to be mandatory to provide reliable statistics. Failure to provide census information has always attracted a fine. Enumerators were employed since the earliest day since many could not read and write. Sadly this is one reason why many people still need assistance to complete the forms
It must be clear to everybody that it is impossible to govern properly without reliable information about the population and where it lives. Otherwise how do you decide where to build schools, provide utilities, build roads etc. ? I suspect those who complain about the census somehow still expect the government to somehow know this information.
As has been said no personal information in the survey is disclosed for 100 years. Only the statistical data is used.
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CGNorwich: "Otherwise how do you decide where to build schools, provide utilities, build roads etc. "
Telegraph: "Each 32 page form asks detailed personal questions about families across the country. "
You don't need a 32 page form with detailed personal questions to know where to build school, provide utilities, build roads, etc.
"How many people are there in this house, and what year were they born?" tells them all they need to know.
And, to be honest, one can get a pretty good idea of where to build roads by knowing which roads have a lot of traffic. One can get a pretty good idea of where to build schools by looking at the enrolments in locals schools. One can get a pretty good idea of where to provide water and electricity by looking around to see where the buildings are. The government does not, I suspect, really need to know any of the stuff on a census form. But if it was just a matter of how many people and when they were born, no one would be complaining.
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Have I done a bad thing ? - RattleandSmoke
