A Durham copper who sold guns to the public which were handed in for safe disposal has had his subsequent pension reduction reduced.
Durham Police Authority chopped him back 65 per cent - the maximum allowed - but on appeal the reduction was altered to 25 per cent.
Still means he will get a £40K lump sum and £15K a year from his 50th birthday next month.
I was there for the hearing, but in the interests of impartiality the link is to somebody else's story:
tinyurl.com/7lzfthy - www.thenorthernecho.co.uk
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 3 Feb 12 at 10:08
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No he should not, Government employees of all types are well aware of the "Pension traps". The sensible (and honest) ones avoid them.
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A military friend got himself in deep doo which resulted in a court martial. If he had been dismissed the Service he would have lost his pension, automatically. However there was a dispensation that, on appeal, up to 90% could be restored.
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...Government employees of all types are well aware of the "Pension traps"...
Good point.
One of the arguments in court was that he had been adequately punished by the suspended prison sentence and loss of his job.
But he should have thought from the day he joined the police: "I can look forward to a good pension - provided I keep my nose clean."
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>> Still means he will get a £40K lump sum and £15K a year from his
>> 50th birthday next month.
Crikey! What on earth salary was he on to be able to get such a high pension at 50? I should have joined the police force instead of working for companies that manufactured automotive products.
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...What on earth salary was he on to be able to get such a high pension at 50?...
Just an ordinary PC's wage.
When people talk about absurdly generous police pensions they are not joking.
Senior officers get a lot more.
Allen was due to get a £50K+ lump sum and £21K a year, for life, from the age of 50.
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>> Allen was due to get a £50K+ lump sum and £21K a year, for life,
>> from the age of 50.
>>
>>
And don't forget it is index linked. 5% this year.
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And don't forget it is index linked. 5% this year.
No it's not - only indexed linked from age 55 - currently PCs get around 130k lump some fully commuted and then around 19k annually. There is a sliding scale, the lesser the lump sum the more the annual sum.
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>> No it's not -
>>
Mine worked differently, Take the maximum commutation (3X annual pension tax free) reduced pension fixed until age 55 then reverts to full pension rate and is index linked.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 3 Feb 12 at 17:34
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still is that ON, although not for much longer. I take it you were on afps 75 ?
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>> I take it you were on afps 75 ?
>>
Yes.
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>> Crikey! What on earth salary was he on to be able to get such a high pension at 50?>>
They are not called "Gold plated" for nothing, I was just a scabby matelot and I will not starve.
But I put up with a lot of crap to get a good pension.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 3 Feb 12 at 10:42
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An ex colleague, whose surname was Cook, was in the Navy, as was his Dad. His Dad was short tempered and could stand up for himself when needed.
Apparently he got into an argument on deck one day, and this eventually produced from the tannoy the immortal line
"Will Seaman Cook please stop throwing matelots into the water".
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I understand that in many Counties and Police Services up to 1/3rd of their budget goes on pensions for the retired employees.
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I understand that in many Counties and Police Services.
Now funded centrally from the Treasury.
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At the time I retired, the maximum that the IR (later called HMRC) would allow for the occupational pension of private sector workers was two thirds of final salary. "Final salary" was as defined by the employer. In my employer's scheme it was the average of the final two years gross annual salary less the average of the basic annual state pension for that period.
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For Civil Serpents it used to be the best 12 consecutive month's pay in one's last 3 years service as a basis for the 2/3rds calculation. This used to lead to highly paid overseas postings of just over a year to raise the figures
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...At the time I retired, the maximum that the IR (later called HMRC) would allow for the occupational pension of private sector workers was two thirds of final salary. "Final salary" was as defined by the employer...
Listening to that case, I think roughly the same applies to the police.
The 'final salary' element led to joke promotions in the last years of service for coppers whose face fitted.
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.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 3 Feb 12 at 11:09
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The Police pay a much larger contribution towards their pension than other occupations.
My contribution was seven per cent. I think Police pay about ten per cent.
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more than that it's about 12.5%
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>> The Police pay a much larger contribution towards their pension than other occupations.
>> My contribution was seven per cent. I think Police pay about ten per cent.
>>
How much the Police contribute is a separate issue. The issue I raised was how much pension they get in relation to their salary and their number of years service. To get the pension I got I had, for a long time, to contribute 15%. I'd have liked to have been allowed to contribute more, but 15% was the limit set by Inland Revenue.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 3 Feb 12 at 14:31
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>>
>> How much the Police contribute is a separate issue. The issue I raised was how
>> much pension they get in relation to their salary and their number of years service.
Surely how much they pay in is a fundamental part of how much they get pension wise?
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>> >> How much the Police contribute is a separate issue. The issue I raised was
>> how
>> >> much pension they get in relation to their salary and their number of years
>> service.
>>
>> Surely how much they pay in is a fundamental part of how much they get
>> pension wise?
>>
I repeat ~ The issue I raised was how much pension they get in relation to their salary and their number of years service.
I don't know what the HMRC rules are now. For me there was a limit as to how much I could contribute ~ 15% of pensionable salary, and a limit as to how much pension I could have ~ 2/3rds of final pensionable pay as defined by the pension scheme, and always provided that my service was long enough. Very very few employees contributed anywhere near as much as the limit, very few employees had a long enough service, and very very few employees got a pension anywhere near the HMRC limit. As I said, I had to (voluntarily) contribute 15% for quite a number of years. And .......... I had to work until I was 64.
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I know you were, I just think that how much they pay is pretty central to pensions, as you pointed out yours a couple of times. :-)
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Police pensions, like other service type professions can be a max of 2/3rds of your last year's pensionable salary.
Not all your salary is pensionable.
If you take a lump sum commutation then you do not receive the 2/3rd as you give up some of your pension to have it commuted into the lump sum. A common practice is to have a 1/2 of your last year's pensionable salary and the bit you've given up becomes the lump sum.
Like the Forces, police officers have to work a specific length of time to receive a full pension. It used to be 30 years, but as from 2006, for new recruits, it is now 35 years. The earliest you could join the police is 18.5 years old...although nowadays that is unheard of, it's more like 25 or 26.
There are some who joined at 18.5 and can now retire at 48.5, although they are in the minority. Being one of them, I can assure anyone that pensions were the last thing on my mind when I signed up 30 years ago. Whether or not I could get in to the nurses home next door, now that would have been a priority.
I can only presume that the police had/have fixed terms before their pensions apply, so that you don't have a 'dad's army' of Constables turning up to chase your burglars across back gardens and over roofs.
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...so that you don't have a 'dad's army' of Constables turning up to chase your burglars across back gardens and over roofs...
Fair point and one that's been made to me by a few coppers - you can't expect a guy in his 50s to roll around on the ground with the weekend drunks.
But what irks me is when I see skilled detectives retire at 50 when they could do their job for much longer.
All that knowledge and experience - gained at public expense - is lost to the law-abiding community he was serving.
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They can stay on longer if they want to, can't they?
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I would think that 30 years as a policeman would be long enough for most people. I'm pretty certain it would have been for me.
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...They can stay on longer if they want to, can't they?...
Several policemen I know count are counting down the days, if not the hours, even though they've still got two or three years to go.
There's usually plenty of alternative earning opportunity in 'security', or on some pointless publicly-funded body where it looks good to have an ex-copper on the strength.
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>> ...They can stay on longer if they want to, can't they?...
>>
>> Several policemen I know count are counting down the days, if not the hours, even
>> though they've still got two or three years to go.
>>
>> There's usually plenty of alternative earning opportunity in 'security', or on some pointless publicly-funded body where it looks good to have an ex-copper on the strength.
I know many will be, my dad was in for 30 and my uncle hasn't long to go and he is counting down the days, mainly looking in the BMW brochure ;-). But the option is there, I think, if they want it, some do stay longer.
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They could serve as long as they wanted in the good old days, lot of Forces, including my local one have pensioned anyone coming up to their service end.
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Dragging this thread, kicking and screaming, back to the original topic...
"the weapons had been sold only to people with firearms certificates, not criminals"
Oh really?
And have said weapons all been recovered?
And have said citizens 'with firearms certificates' all been vetted to make sure that every transaction on buying/selling firearms was valid?
Have said weapons been tested for ballistic traces which could link them to previous crimes?
Any serious buyer of a firearm is going to ask some serious questions about provenance and history of said weapon. I know I do.
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This is surely an example of an insanely gross breach of Public-Police trust/confidence - I'm surprised he didn't get jailed.
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>> This is surely an example of an insanely gross breach of Public-Police trust/confidence - I'm
>> surprised he didn't get jailed.
>>
So am I. He should count himself extremely lucky. You know the criminal justice system is truly knackered when someone in the police force nicks guns, sells them and doesn't do time.
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>> >> You know the criminal justice system
>> is truly knackered when someone in the police force nicks guns, sells them and doesn't
>> do time.
>>
I perceive you have served in Afghanistan, Watson.
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>> I perceive you have served in Afghanistan, Watson.
>>
Sorry. You lost me on that one.
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>> >> I perceive you have served in Afghanistan, Watson.
>> >>
>>
>> Sorry. You lost me on that one.
>>
The description of the security services selling guns is current news, - in Afghanistan.
At Watson's first introduction, Holmes famously deduces that he has recently served in Afghanistan.
Sorry - trying to be too clever and make two jokes in one line :)
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>> Durham Police Authority chopped him back 65 per cent - the maximum allowed - but
>> on appeal the reduction was altered to 25 per cent.
>>
>> Still means he will get a £40K lump sum and £15K a year from his
>> 50th birthday next month.
If his pension had not been reduced, and assuming he'd been in the scheme from age 18 (i.e. 32 years pensionable service) it would have equated in my employers scheme to a final salary of approximately £52700 pa.
I still think I should have joined the police force, rather than going into the automotive industry.
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Yes you should for the pension, but you would have made a terrible policeman.
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Well yes, L'escargot, but your're not seriously comparing the two jobs are you? As for 'gold plated', only if you don't get injured in the preceding 30 years in the course of your work and have to leave. Or driven mad...
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...As for 'gold plated', only if you don't get injured...
You're right, if you get injured gold plated becomes solid gold.
And if you get killed on the job, your widow will be even better looked after.
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"And if you get killed on the job, your widow will be even better looked after."
iffy that's unbelievably crass.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 4 Feb 12 at 20:46
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What's crass?
The truth of the statement, or my way of putting it?
It's only right that someone seriously injured performing a public service should be well looked after.
Same applies to their family if they are killed.
Happily, such instances are rare, so we can afford to do it.
What we cannot afford is to pay every copper £500,000+ to sit on his backside for the rest of his life from the age of 50.
Which, of course, is why we are no longer going to do it for new recruits.
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>> What's crass?
>>
The mentioning of the widow, the money she would receive on the death of her husband. Poor show and not the done thing old chap.
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...Poor show and not the done thing old chap...
Of all the violets on here, I didn't think you'd be one of the shrinking ones.
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Isn't discussion of widow's benefits one of the important factors when contemplating pensions? Would you really prefer that your IFA omitted to mention it, RP, out of supposed delicacy?
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Mon 6 Feb 12 at 09:52
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I presume RP meant the delivery was crass, as opposed to the content of the message.
Black humour is the lifeblood of t'internet.
Or should that be 'humour of colour' ?
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...Isn't discussion of widow's benefits one of the important factors when contemplating pensions?...
Of course it is, but the police are so far ahead in the pensions game they like to stifle any discussion about it - any reassessment of the scheme is bound to lead to a worsening of their conditions.
I don't blame them for that - were I a copper, I'd think the same way.
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It was all down to delivery, iffy's later clarification sounded less tabloid headline.
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Coppers should set a excample that is the name of the game in my opinion.
He got away with it.If I had been caught nicking my pension would have been gone plus the sack.
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...plus the sack...
"Allowed to resign" in the Never-Never land of Durham Police human resources.
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Good for him - should he feel the need to work again.
He can honestly and correctly say he quit Durham Police after 29 years, and once the conviction is spent, well, he's clean as a whistle.
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He won't get his good conduct "reference" - mind you seen plenty of bent coppers re-invent themselves into good jobs - there is one that actually defies belief.....but I can't mention it here.
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This clown - despite two convictions and prison sentences in the last three years - is still 'suspended' from his job at the Met.
Flog guns and you're allowed to resign, unlawfully persecute a citizen, get locked up for it (twice), and you don't even lose your job.
Not to mention your pension, which in this case could be more than a grand a week.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16979424
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I thought he was dismissed after the first conviction, and reinstated after the appeal was successful, but kept suspended pending the retrial?
Looks procedurally normal to me.
He'll likely be dismissed shortly and reinstated when appeal 2 succeeds...
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>> He'll likely be dismissed shortly and reinstated when appeal 2 succeeds...
If he is allowed to appeal, I hope he isnt. Nasty bit of work.
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>> This clown - despite two convictions and prison sentences in the last three years -
>> is still 'suspended' from his job at the Met.
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16979424
Only one conviction in effect Iffs. He was convicted and sentenced but somehow managed to get verdict set aside by casting aspersions on victim's credibility as a witness. Re-trial and hey presto! jury still think he's a baddun and he's doing time again.
No escape this time and hopefully his pension will be confiscate to offset losses for his overpaid salary during appeal etc process.
EDIT: I'm generally prepared to accept that it's tougher for BME candidates to get to the top in the police. But with this guy there's just too much smoke for there to be no fire.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 13 Feb 12 at 20:46
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...Only one conviction in effect Iffs...
One jury concluding you are a bent copper might be considered unfortunate, but two?
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>> ...Only one conviction in effect Iffs...
>>
>> One jury concluding you are a bent copper might be considered unfortunate, but two?
I think that sums it up. Unfortunately once Jury#1's verdict is overturned you're a straight copper until #2 kicks in.
Given #2 verdict was today and there's a certain amount of 'due process' to deprive a guy of his pension and employment rights we might need to cut the MPS enough slack for process to run it's course before getting too excited about bent coppers keeping their gold plated wotsits
EDIT. Ignore above and substitute 'wot Lygonos said'.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 13 Feb 12 at 21:03
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And procedure must be followed to dismiss him.
Failure to follow the correct procedure makes 'unfair dismissal' virtually automatic and risks a tribunal shafting the Met.
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Out here in the real world his feet wouldn't have touched the ground after the first case, or even before it.
Both Lygonos and Bromp make valid points.
But they also illustrate the vast gulf between those of us who, effectively, work for shareholders, and those who are publicly funded.
As a copper, you might think he would have a firmer grasp of the realities of life than most people.
But the reverse is true, he exists in a world in which there's always time and money for procedures, meetings, appeals and anything else - apart from doing the job he was originally hired to do.
When was the last time this guy did any proper coppering, bent or otherwise?
Many years ago, if ever.
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effectively, work for shareholders, and those who are publicly funded.
The private sector's epitome of good practice the Banks, alongside them what the public sector gets up to pales into insignificance iffy.
Last edited by: R.P. on Mon 13 Feb 12 at 21:28
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The laws of employment apply whether privately or publically employed.
And what R.P. says ;-)
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...The laws of employment apply whether privately or publically employed...
Apply, but not always applied.
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...The private sector's epitome of good practice the Banks, alongside them what the public sector gets up to pales into insignificance iffy...
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Arguably three wrongs, the public sector, the banks, and the private companies who don't follow the rules.
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you really have a bee in your bonnet about the public sector. What gives, get knocked back in an interview?
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...you really have a bee in your bonnet about the public sector. What gives, get knocked back in an interview?...
If you think the feather-bedding in the public sector is sustainable financially and not in need of reform, argue the point.
Ditto if you don't agree some in public service need to get a grip of the real world as inhabited by those who pay their wages.
But to answer your question, the public sector is not an environment in which I would prosper, so I've never applied.
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thought i'd just cut to the chase and find out what gives you such a thing about the public sector. I don't think there'd be much point in all that. I do think though that you could get a bit more of a balanced outlook might help you see things in a less one eyed way.
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...thought i'd just cut to the chase...
Cut to the chase?
You are doing quite the reverse.
Stop prattling on about me and start arguing the points.
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i don't think you really understood my post above. No problem.
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...i don't think you really understood my post above. No problem...
Sooty, what part of the following do you not understand?
Discuss the post, not the poster.
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It's up to him iffy - you certainly give the impression that you have some anti-public sector bias. In fairness it would be very easy to use the privately owned press as an Aunt Sally if one was inclined. :-)
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i did you just didn't understand. It's wasn't that hard to grasp.
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...i did you just didn't understand. It's wasn't that hard to grasp...
I understand arrogance and being patronised.
What I don't understand is why you can't post on the topic?
Surely that's not hard to grasp?
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Did no-one ever tell you two that you should never go to bed on an argument?
Pat
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>> ...i don't think you really understood my post above. No problem...
>>
>> Sooty, what part of the following do you not understand?
>>
>> Discuss the post, not the poster.
Non-motoring Sat 4 Feb 12 14:36
"OK, here's a statement or three:
Some people post on internet purely to pick fault.
You tried with the speed cameras in Durham, and you're trying it again.
Failed both times - sharpen up or ship out."
:-D
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Fred Goodwin kept his pension and never appeared before any sort of Court - but arguably he not only bought a bank down and turned it into a public sector company but nearly brought the country to its knees (along with other of his ilk) and he got away with it......I'm sure the shareholder sof his bank are very happy with his performance.
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Fred Goodwin and the Bankers. They were heroes while the likes of Gordon Brown told us that the days of boom and bust were over. Goodwin kept his pension because Brown let him.
The banks were encouraged by Governments to lend to people who could not afford to borrow, hence the sub-prime mortgages and the 6x and greater multiples allowed.
To assist your Goodwin and Banker bashing, do some research - use this summary, albeit on on Wiki, as a starting point to dig out the facts
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Goodwin
Shareholders: if you are talking about big corporations - world-stock-market quoted companies - then shareholders in the main have little power over the Board. Shareholders buy and sell their holding daily and the Board do not have a clue nor do they really care who their "owners" are on a daily basis.
The private sector which provides most jobs is that categorised as small, unquoted, mainly family owned, businesses. The shareholders there do have a real day to day influence on the running of their businesses.
Last edited by: John H on Tue 14 Feb 12 at 10:58
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p.s.
HSBC, Barclays, and Lloyds were not major players in the sub-prime disaster, and the first two have relatively speaking survived well on the stock market since the crunch. Unlike Lloyds, which got dragged down because the Board swallowed what liked a juicy HBOS bite that Gordon Brown dangled before them as bait.
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HSBC were apparently "at the centre of" the sub prime market at some point...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC#Subprime_crisis
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>> HSBC were apparently "at the centre of" the sub prime market at some point... >>
If you take 5% to mean "centre" then you are right. In terms of the US sub-prime market, HSBC's involvement amounted to about 5% of the market.
HSBC's US sub-prime operations were small enough not to take down the company.
www.publicintegrity.org/investigations/economic_meltdown/assets/img/top25-listfull.jpg
www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ajBfkUKrgsZY
"HSBC was forced to set aside about $53 billion in three years for bad loans, the majority relating to the U.S. division. Globally, the collapse of the subprime mortgage market has so far led to more than $1.15 trillion of credit losses and writedowns at financial institutions and government bailouts of companies ranging from Citigroup Inc. to Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc of Edinburgh.
Note that HSBC has continued making profits elsewhere, and paying a dividend throughout - although not at the high levels of pre-2009.
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Appearing in the top 10 in the world for any reason is quite an achievement in my book.
I don't see any of the other "UK" banks in that top 25, in which HSBC were 9th.
Maybe it was less that "sub-prime operations were small enough not to take down the company" and more that HSBC were large enough to absorb the losses.
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>> Appearing in the top 10 in the world for any reason is quite an achievement in my book. >>
Since when does USA = World?
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>> Since when does USA = World?
When its the world series of Baseball.
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Whatever. Googling HSBC and subprime brings up many articles suggesting to me that they were something of a major player.
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Goodwin was a crap banker. It happens. Nothing you can say about research proves otherwise.
In the cold light of day other bankers admit he was a crap banker.
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>> In the cold light of day other bankers admit he was a crap banker. >>
Took them a while to see the cold light of day. Hindsight is wonderful thing.
Where were the critics when he took the share price to £18 from the 442p it was when he became CEO of RBS in January 2001?
It has always been thus in the City. While the share price is rocketing up, there is nothing but praise. As soon as the realities of the bubble catch up with the CEO, the CEO is then dumped as a poor choice. There are scores, perhaps hundreds, of such growths and downfalls.
Even your favourite woman, Fiorina was victim.
"The new joke about Carly Fiorina, sacked last week as CEO of Hewlett-Packard, goes like this: After Fiorina passes on, she stands in front of a celestial judge and jury. She's a great salesperson and argues her way into heaven. But when Fiorina heads down the hall and opens the first door, all she sees are flames and demons. "There must be some mistake," she complains to an angel. "I'm supposed to go to heaven, not hell." The angel dryly responds, "Oh yeah, forgot to tell you. We merged.""
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>> >> In the cold light of day other bankers admit he was a crap banker.
>> >>
>>
>> Took them a while to see the cold light of day. Hindsight is wonderful thing
Its not hindsight, its consequences of poor management., At the time EVERYONE said Fred had overpaid for a lemon.
>> Where were the critics when he took the share price to £18 from the 442p
>> it was when he became CEO of RBS in January 2001?
Merely matches a general rise in the Banking sector.
>> It has always been thus in the City. While the share price is rocketing up,
>> there is nothing but praise. As soon as the realities of the bubble catch up
>> with the CEO, the CEO is then dumped as a poor choice. There are scores,
>> perhaps hundreds, of such growths and downfalls.
And quite rightly so, because of, as I explained above, consequences take time to appear. The city is too "short termism" steady controlled safe growth is not appreciated.
>> Even your favourite woman, Fiorina was victim.
Not my favourite, firstly I worked for the "other lot" and secondly she was not very good either - consequences again you see.
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>> But they also illustrate the vast gulf between those of us who, effectively, work for
>> shareholders, and those who are publicly funded.
I guess bleeding heart shareholders are in short supply. However, when politicians are the shareholders.....
OTOH one of my bosses has got involved with working groups that do public/private sector learning exchanges. The corporate world recognises that the public sector has shown the way on diversity - recognising and exploiting the skills of all of the workforce.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 13 Feb 12 at 21:52
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>
>> learning exchanges. The corporate world recognises that the public sector has shown the way on
>> diversity - recognising and exploiting the skills of all of the workforce.
I think that's called work creation and job protection? The private sector is unable to make jobs for the boys i am afraid. The need for profit kinda precludes it.
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>> I think that's called work creation and job protection? The private sector is unable to
>> make jobs for the boys i am afraid. The need for profit kinda precludes it.
Nothing to do with jobs for boys. Quite the opposite.
White skin and testicles should be disregarded when selecting for promotion.
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>The corporate world recognises that the public sector has shown the way on diversity..
Tosh.
IBM created it's "Corporate Equal Opportunity Department" in 1968. In the same year it introduced it's "IBM Minority Supplier Program".
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And their managers don't have balls!
Hmm not sure that came out right, second thoughts maybe it did.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 13 Feb 12 at 23:17
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>And their managers don't have balls!
>Hmm not sure that came out right, second thoughts maybe it did.
Well, the new CEO certainly doesn't so I don't think anyone could disagree with you Z.
Here ya go Bromptonaut:-
www-03.ibm.com/employment/us/diverse/heritage_ibm_1960.shtml
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>> >The corporate world recognises that the public sector has shown the way on diversity..
>>
>> Tosh.
>>
>> IBM created it's "Corporate Equal Opportunity Department" in 1968. In the same year it introduced
>> it's "IBM Minority Supplier Program".
>>
Scratching my head a bit I seem to recall IBM being mentioned as an early mover on the subject. A brave move by a US multinational at a time when segregationists like Wallace could aspire to the highest public office. I was however talking in UK terms and relating an experience as reported to me and in terms of what's done in the here and now.
How long before IBM policy gained enough traction to reach the boardroom?
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HP beat them to it in 1999
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Fiorina
When was the first time the Head of the Civil Service was female?
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 14 Feb 12 at 09:43
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Not only no balls, but not white skinned either:
see no.2 and no.8 here
money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/most-powerful-women/2011/full_list/
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>> HP beat them to it in 1999
>>
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Fiorina
>>
>> When was the first time the Head of the Civil Service was female?
That one's still to come but there were several women 'runners' after GO'D stood down. At least three at top of big Departments including Lyn Homer at Transport.
First woman Perm Sec was Dame Evelyn Sharp around 1955. Known for her battles with Crossman and (less so) Thatcher.
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...White skin and testicles should be disregarded when selecting for promotion...
Never in the world, and those in the public sector needed a 'diversity programme' to work that out?
No wonder we can lose thousands and barely notice the difference.
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Diversity programmes/promotion have all been foisted upon the public sector. No, they didn't need to work it out, HM Government spoon fed it to them, like it or not. Much like they spoon fed performance measurement and the associated targets along with the compiling of stats needing to be fed ever-inwards. If we could remove the armies of people employed in the various public sectors checking what everybody else is doing and producing stats then we'd have more of them working in the front line or a seriously reduced (and cheaper) workforce.
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Couldn't have put it better myself Woodster.
...and that sort of thing is one of the reasons Ali Dizaei got to such a senior rank....when he clearly shouldn't have.
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>> that sort of thing is one of the reasons Ali Dizaei got to such a senior rank...
I say, be fair chaps. They say he's a right villain as well. Surely that counts for something?
Evil smirk...
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>> I say, be fair chaps. They say he's a right villain as well. Surely that
>> counts for something?
>>
>> Evil smirk...
>>
Lud,
You're still living in the past....somewhere in the late 60's early 70's i'd guess...;-)
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>> You're still living in the past....
Only when I'm teasing the fuzz with cries of 'All coppers are handsome!' before fleeing the expected clip over the ear. I am more up to date on serious matters.
:o}
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Should he have kept the lot? - Old Navy
