Comparing old and new
Mrs B's Berlingo was in the supplying dealer's workshop yesterday for fitting of a towbar.
Courtesy car was a 62 reg Pug 208 1.4 petrol. Quite nice actually, well equipped with a touch screen panel for radio and vehicle parameters. Very nippy if pushed, cruise and speed limiter were were interesting playthings around the village and on the NSL sections of the A5.
Not tempted to recommend it though.
Today my car (the older 05/IDI Berlingo) is in dock with my tame French car specialist over its ongoing post service rough starting issue.
Loan car (they're keeping mine in 'cos trouble is only present when cold/standing) is a 13yo X reg Picasso. It's diesel so I guess HDi 90 and with 180k on clock. Apart from a slight knock on lock it performs faultlessly. Radio and all the electronic dash stuff works fine.
I much prefer ease of access compared with 2 door Pug and the high driving position feels just right.
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>> a touch screen panel for radio and vehicle parameters.
I know its the way forward, but one of those would drive me up the wall. I can *just* about tolerate finger prints all over my smart phone screen, but any other screen I use has to be spotlessly clean. When I first bought my Vectra, the first thing that got a clean was the built in LCD sat-nav/information screen. Something the garage overlooked before selling. Any marks on it and out comes the duster from the glovebox.
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Dave, you'll like the revised Insignia with touchscreen then :-)
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I do notice that Vectras are often suspiciously clean and often with missing boot badges. Is it some kind of secret society?
;-)
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I've noticed recently Insignias missing badges from the grille. And underneath the black plastic has cutouts for the Opel logo.
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...Vectras ... missing boot badges. Is it some kind of secret society?
Embarrassment. They often seem to replace the entire grille with a badgeless one too. Automotive equivalent of the plain brown bag from the gentlemen's shop, I suppose.
};---)
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My missus once said to me: "Oh, look. There's an Irmscher. I've never heard of those. Are they fast?"
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MRs B's 'lingo in today for 25k service*.
Courtesy car is an almost new, under 2k miles, 64 plate Peugeot 308. This one's a diesel but feels like the 208's bigger brother. Same touch screen centre console set up, too a while to find the heater controls when it just kept getting warmer. Turned out the previous user had interior temp at max - 29.9C!! Adds an electric handbrake which performs seamlesly. Applies itself when you stop and comes off again when you move on. There is some sort of control for it on centre console. Won't be testing it on the local 1in10 though.
Like most modern hatches it's been fitted with a letterbox in place of a rear window but once mirrors were adjusted visibility was adequate. Pat should note though that whatever I did with them I could not see the fuel filler Needed that straight away as it was running on fumes. Worried I'd not even make it the 3/4 mile from Perrys in Bletchley to Asda! Had to stop before the pumps and walk round to find it - offside.
On the road it feels pretty much like the 'lingo - probably the same engine? No problem mixing in on the (dualled) A5 MK bypass or getting past a tractor on the single carriageway after Stony Stratford. Satnav tracked position accurately and showed speed alerts etc. If I've got time I'll programme it for return journey - just for giggles, I know the way well enough.
*That's 25k since September 2013. Won't rack it up so quickly now as Mrs B's working locally rather than 15miles away. Nonetheless we've made a conscious effort in last couple of months to use 'Enrico', the older Berlingo, for some long runs. These have included pre Xmas in Devon, the Uni runs and returning Miss B to Plymouth as NHS Blood Transfusion were running sessions between Xmas and new year.
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Interesting re the using of the old car, presumably to keep the miles down on the new one?
Fair enough, I guess they are so similar that it makes a fair bit of sense. However, I remember when a guy I knew ( a total petrolhead ) managed to get himself in a position to buy his dream car. It was a Lamborghini somethingorother, bright orange thing anyway, not my taste but he was in love with it.
Here's the odd thing though, he hardly ever used it because he wanted "to keep the miles down". Instead he drove around mostly in his works van even for private use.
I wouldn't do that. If I couldn't afford to run a particular new car I'd not buy it. If I had decided I could afford it I'd just use it.
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I know someone who never drove his Ferrari. His explanation was "I'd look like a prat". On the other hand, he couldn't wait to get his hands on my Astra estate when I sold it. He uses it every day. Very strange.
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Well, having said the above, and not that it's a dilemma ever likely to trouble me, if ever I found I could afford to buy and run a "Supercar" I suspect I might not do that. There's something to be said for "staying below the radar".
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>> if ever I found I could afford to buy and run a "Supercar" I suspect I might not do that. There's something to be said for "staying below the radar".
Quite Humph, couldn't agree more. Supercars are embarrassing, take a lot of concentration to drive and are a bit of a responsibility. Last thing you want is everyone peering in to see which frightful celeb you are.
There's a huge choice of below-the-radar jalopies some of which go better than some so-called supercars, without the ostentation or expense. Anyone sensible with a lot of money would go for one of those. Only the very young really fancy owning (as opposed to having a go in) Ferraris and so on.
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A de-badged E63 estate would appeal to me for example.
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Runfer , you keepin mentioning the 63. Is it possible to waft in such a vehicle ? Personally, I don't think I would have the self control.
And I'm not missing the baby A3 Tdi yet.
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>> the 63. Is it possible to waft in such a vehicle ?
Why wouldn't it be? Slushpump auto, isn't going to be a violently peaky engine, light foot and lots of overrun surely?
If the 63 is the long big swoopy thing with the wingline in a single curve echoed by the roofline, I saw a very clean and shiny black one in the local supermarket car park today. I imagine the estate wouldn't be much different.
It's too damn big and overbearing for me. There are smaller booted Mercedeses. One of those in shabby white or grey, with a 6.9litre V8 stuffed under the bonnet at whatever cost (those Mercedes V8s are quite light being largely made of light alloy), would suit me very well if I were incredibly rich and ten years younger... I bet I could waft in that no problem.
Naturally I take yr point about temptation legacy. YEE-HAH! Ner ner ner ner ner ner ... oh damn... right sir do you know how fast you were going when you passed us? etc etc oh damn...
(Note: 'oh damn' is a euphemism of course. Don't want to upset the site bosses).
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 5 Jan 15 at 20:12
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I've been in one a few times recently and yes, it's perfectly capable of wafting when so required. When not, though, the acceleration - and the sound - can astonish.
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>> A de-badged E63 estate would appeal to me for example.
>>
I saw something on TV a while back with Jay Kay of Jamiroquai - (for the older members he's a young man of popular music)
He is known for his love of motors and his Ferrari collection, but see that he was using an Audi RS6 as his "town car"
If money was no issue I like the idea of a supercar, but I imagine the reality is not as good as the dream. Think I would stick with Q cars
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>>If money was no issue I like the idea of a supercar, but I imagine the reality is not as good as the dream. Think I would stick with Q cars
Popped into my local mechanics yesterday for a chat and saw that he had an old Volvo estate that he was working on with what looked like a complete engine strip out.
Sure enough it was one of the original T5 estates and the owner was in the process of spending close to £900 to get a replacement engine supplied and fitted as the original had blown up.
Mechanic had tried to talk him out of it on the basis of spend v value but the owner has had it since new and absolutely loves the car still.
Must check, wonder what the original T5 performance was ? Probably less than bog standard repmobiles now??
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>> Must check, wonder what the original T5 performance was ? Probably less than bog standard repmobiles now??
I seem to recall it was pretty potent. Hence T5 estate cars used for the touring car competition. Amusing seeing them charging round.
I assume this is an 850 series Volvo. Not a T5-R?
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Guy I knew had an 850 T5 saloon, ex police car it was. Seemed pretty quick to me, but didnt have any form of traction control so really struggled to get its power down in the wet.
I think top speed was somewhere in the 140s. As Bobby says, tasty repmobile territory these days.
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7.2 to 60 and 149 top- brisk enough for me
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>> 7.2 to 60 and 149 top- brisk enough for me
>>
Certainly brisk enough, but to put it in modern day context my 250CDi LEC gets to 62mph in 7.6 seconds and has a top speed of 144mph. The fast version, an E63, does it in 4.3 seconds and is limited to 155mph. It does cost £75k, but in real terms that's probably the same as the Volvo 'back in the day' !
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My 1.4TFSi A3 only does 0-62mph in a lengthy 8.2s. Fast enough for me. Top speed is only 139mph. I know a smaller lighter car too. But not bad for a 1.4 turbo I guess.
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O-60s are pretty irrelevant dont you think? My important criteria is how quickly, and safely, can I overtake slower moving vehicles. And a few wagons trundling along at 56 on a fairly short straight.
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I agree legacylad. Spot on. The previous car I had, the 170PS Passat CC diesel, was great. Floor it and it just went. To be honest I've not tried similar in the A3 because I've not had to or to be honest gone far (2200 miles in 2-3 months). And if you floor it with a DSG box it will change down if needed.
In gear (top and lower gears) in my Passat CC were good. I went for the 170PS variant because of the additional torque. The car before it was only 143PS but had 360Nm of torque. The Passat CC was 350Nm. The A3 is only 250Nm.
We have a local cat that comes into our house and I though I'd rev the engine to 'frighten it a bit' outside our house (we love cats! but it appearing in the bedroom is a bit much!). Forgot I had a DSG.... I just accelerated quickly and engine noise did not increase much.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 23:13
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Not a supercar by any means, but I probably still look a bit of a prat driving the Soarer, doesn't stop me though.
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>> I did with them I could not see the fuel filler Needed that straight away
>> as it was running on fumes. Worried I'd not even make it the 3/4 mile
>> from Perrys in Bletchley to Asda! Had to stop before the pumps and walk round
>> to find it - offside.
>>
I think you will find that on many cars there will be some sort of clue as to which side the filler is. Often a pointer or arrow adjacent to the fuel gauge.
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>> >> a touch screen panel for radio and vehicle parameters.
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>> I know its the way forward, but one of those would drive me up the wall.
Cross you off the Tesla waiting list ?
www.teslamotors.com/it_CH/forum/forums/17-screen-center-console
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/lFTHksKlRfNBk6SGQRz4cQ?feat=embedwebsite
A quick demo
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ0HsN-tblo
Amazing ?
I am sure a young blade like you will soon sort it.
Me - I would need a co pilot :-)
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Returning the 308 this evening meant driving it in dark. Only on doing that did I realise how mucky the inside of windscreen was. Either that or the demist was useless or too complicated to work.
Seemed to have some sort of auto dip on the rear view mirror. Lighs of following cars were 'melllowed' to a sort of green colour. Better without tbh, made judging their speed more difficult but perhaps I'd get used to it if it were my own car.
Nice to be back in our own Fleur- the newer 'lingo
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Our courtesy car this week whilst SWMBO's X3 is in the workshop again is a Dame Edna BMW 530i. 10 years old and 95,000 miles but still a very nice motor.
I reckon the BMWs were better built back then. Seem to have gone backwards quality-wise the past 3-4 years IMHO.
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Fwiw I like autodipping rear mirrors. Mine works so well I don't think I could go back to the manual equivalent now.
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>> Fwiw I like autodipping rear mirrors. Mine works so well I don't think I could
>> go back to the manual equivalent now.
In a strange car I found it difficult to estimate how fast vehicles behind on dual carriageway were closing or to relate centre mirror image to door mirrors. Could only get easier with familiarity; I'd probably learn to love it if it were in my car.
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Just a small point they are auto-dimming not dipping. You can always switch off the feqture if you don't like it but it does grow on you .
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Auto dimming is one of the features I miss on my car. They take a little getting used to, or rather to trust, but they are infinitely better than the crude manual dip.
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I can't remember if it was standard on the A3 or not - but I have it. I suspect it was part of some pack I went for, along with parking sensors. And then I added more. I think auto-dimming rear view mirror is a really good idea. You miss it when you no longer have it.
It was standard on my Mondeo but then the Mazda6 didn't have it. Then I had it on my VW Passat CC and again on an Audi A3. In fact I had as standard auto dimming driver door mirror on the CC.... and I added that option to the A3.
A number of my options on the A3 I see as safety related. It has bi-xenon lights but I added the directional bit.
I'd never spend as much money buying my own car though!
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Until turboXenonHiD lamps became fashionable i only used the manual mirror dip for the odd twonk who insisted on full beam when following. Need it more now though so perhaps auto dim has a place.
I'd need to understand exactly what it was doing though. Seemed to turn off when stopped at lights for example. OTOH it made it difficult to judge exact distance behind of Mr Honda Civic driving up my chuff in the 50 through Foster's Booth - shot past immediately we were in NSL.
The letterbox rear window didn't help there.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 5 Jan 15 at 22:46
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I had auto dim rear mirror on my 2010 A3 1.6. Side mirrors were the same I think. My 2004 three series has auto dim rear view mirror. Taken for granted, and I wouldn't want to be without these days.
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My 1999 VW Bora SE had the auto dimming rear view mirror as does the current Jetta Sports; you can turn the feature off if preferred. The Jetta's auto dimming is very quick.
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>> Auto dimming is one of the features I miss on my car. >>
Was your car one of the first to have front wheel brakes?
That's a useful feature on a car!
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>> You can always switch off the feqture if you don't like it but it does grow on you .
>>
I cannot find a switch ion my auto dimming mirror..
After two years with it I still do not like it.
Maybe mine dims too much? I keep seeing the vehicle behind with just two small /tiny lights on and maybe I have not adapted to recalculating the distance they are behind me.
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>> Unusual. what car is it?
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I don't consider it is as unusual. it is an higher trim Jaguar X type, 2007.
From what I read on forums there certainly used to be a switch provided on earlier models.
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No switch on my S60 either, as far as I know.
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>> No switch on my S60 either
Nor on my Vectra. Only time the interior and drivers door mirror doesn't dim is when the drivers door is open, or reverse gear is selected.
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How does the dimming work anyway? I understand there must be a sensor on the mirror that detects the incoming light, but then what?
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The mirror polarises electronically. Or to give it the techincal name - electrochromics.
www.ehow.com/how-does_5003057_auto-dimming-mirrors-work.html
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Thanks Vx - that didn't tell me much other than there's a gel involved, so a bit of poking about lead me to all sorts of interesting things about redox reactions, what oxidation actually is, and that the Swedish "tung sten" literally means, apparently, "heavy stone".
That's my next dinner party conversation taken care of.
I also liked this snippet I found on my exploration. Not being a train traveller this was new to me.
"ICE 3 high speed trains use electrochromatic glass panels between the passenger compartment and the driver's cabin. The standard mode is clear, and can be switched by the driver to frosted/translucent, mainly to conceal "unwanted sights" from passengers' view, for example in the case of (human) obstacles."
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I seem to remember one of the houses on a recent edition of Grand Designs featuring windows made of such glass. Eye wateringly expensive.
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The passenger windows of the Boeing 787 are electrochromic too. Means there's no slidy plastic blind inside - which, along with the size of them, helps the view out. Also means that rules on when they're clear and dark (clear for landing, for example) can be observed by central control rather than relying on the passengers to do it.
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I was under the impression that you could normally turn it off, certainly the three cars I have owned with the feature have all had a switch on the mirror. Never do turn it off though
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I don't recall if the Passat I had in 2000 and the Mondeo that followed it in 2003 could turn it off. The Passat CC and Audi A3 both have buttons on the mirror to turn it off. I guess turning it off also disables it for the driver side door mirror if you have that option on the car (I do).
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My car has an on off switch on the mirror and a light sensor on both the front and back. I assume that light brighter in rear sensor = dim mirror. I never switch it off.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 6 Jan 15 at 19:29
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My car has a switch that dips the centre mirror, leaving a darkened or 'dimmed' image. Not arduous to stick your hand up there and dip the thing, takes three seconds.
The door mirrors are motorised and can be adjusted in all directions, rather slowly.
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AC, if you drive a car with auto dimming rear view mirror when someone with very bright lights are behind you'll realise why there are many on here that say we'd rather have this function on cars. So instead of manually dimming the mirror, it dims itself and is gradual.
And the door mirror auto-dimming works in the same way. No manual adjustment of glass. Mine happen to fold in when I want them too as well. And do so automatically when I lock the car. Handy visual (and when folding audio) check the car has been locked too.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 6 Jan 15 at 20:27
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Actually a hire thingy from Europcar while mine's having the car park barrier imprint removed from its roofline.
It's a black five door Fiesta hatchback. No badges to show trim or engine but 15 spoke alloys, aircon and folding mirrors say titanium. Engine is petrol and 998cc according to DVLA but could be 80, 100 or 125PS. It's quite poky so probably 100? Are some of these three cylinder? It has an odd vibration you can feel through seat bolster when stopped. If it was own car you'd get used but felt odd to a newbie.
Feels small and closed in after the Berlingos and I cannot quite get seat/wheel relationship right - too close unless I rake the seat back further than feels natural. Decent sized boot though; swallowed a Brompton whole followed by its front pannier.
Only really driven it from Northampton back home. Easy enough to handle round town with almost diesel like low down torque. Only got it up to 50 on the A4500 and even that's 25% over the limit, comfortable enough. Like most modern cars it's got a conscience arrow to tell you to change gear too soon. As usual I'm ignoring it. In gears that feel right it's very speed stable in both 20 and 30 limits. Light steering and very easy to place accurately in our drive - an S-reverse that can easily end up on next door's grass if not properly judged.
Nice radio/CD, must have bluetooth as it's nagging me to link phone if I want emergency assist (whatever that is!). Bit of a faff to retune, it must have spent time in Jockland as Radio Sotland and BBC Tay were on pre-sets to exclusion of R4.
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Think if its the 1.0 then they are all 3 cyl.
I quite like that unit, although not driven it in a fester, only in the focus
Last edited by: mikeyb on Tue 3 Mar 15 at 18:31
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>> Think if its the 1.0 then they are all 3 cyl.
It's rorty tone and the seat vibration remind me of the Pug 107 Miss B and her Beau share which is also a 3pot.
Consistent evidence. .
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>> Engine is petrol and 998cc according to DVLA but could be 80, 100 or 125PS. It's quite poky so probably 100? Are some of these three cylinder?
So one would earnestly hope, if only for the volumetric efficiency whatever that may be. But you don't need a reason to love 3 cylinder units. I can't think of one that wasn't gutsy and revvy, even super-smooth in some two-stroke versions. There was an early Toyota or Nissan one (am I wrong? Was it a 4wd whassername?), fwd I think, a very pokey machine, saw a cat getting wheelspin in one in the middle of a busy Portobello Road market... I was very impressed, and concluded the driver must have been a local car dealer.
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Would a couple of these 3 cyl things give a combined mpg of 32 which I consistently get from the 330?
Nice long run tomorrow with the oldies.might get the roof down & the heater up. Hope the youngest oldie doesn't get stuck in the back seat like she did two weeks ago. If she does I might put it on You Tube.
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Driving it low sun today I was very aware of the elements in the heated front windscreen. Sure I'd get used to them if it was my car but they're a bit of a distraction ATM. It's also got a thick B pillar at exactly point to best hide traffic exiting the town centre car park that CAB give me a pass for.
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I have a Citroen C4 Cactus (1.6 HDi) for 3 days - initial impressions are that its 100bhp gives a lot more grunt than the 90bhp of the Berlingo. Maybe it weighs less? Handles well, and steering does not feel as dead as many new cars.
The worst feature is the tightness of the roofline, when getting in/out. Maybe my neck does not bend like it used to. Much easier to get into the Panda! Still feels a little claustrophobic, with limited all round vision.
The steering wheel? has a squared flattened section at the 'bottom quadrant' = shades of Allegro? Maybe it is designed for overweight frenchmen with fat thighs. (or perhaps the recent survey in non-motoring is not representative of our gallic neighbours).
Not sure what the target market is?
I was a little disappointed that the promised DS3 was not available - although in retrospect I may not have been able to get in and out.
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>> low sun today
And a lot of low sun yesterday and in days past and to come. Seems to be the time of year for it. However adept you are with the visor and not looking at the damn thing, there are places in our zigzag undulating lanes where it's right in your eyes and you drive pretty blind sometimes for 50 yards... I don't like it, eyes not what they were, same nonsense with headlights at night, occasional plunges into the unknown at 50-plus perhaps for another hundred yards. You know where the road goes like the back of your hand but what's on it unlit round this fast sweeping bend, with something coming the other way just wrong?
It's a great advantage to have been there in youth and survived. Good for one's driving, he burbled boringly for the thousandth time.
I don't go as fast as I did, but sometimes I feel I've been going a bit fast. What a pain it all is.
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Is a Skoda Citigo while Fritz the Roomster has service and cambelt/water pump change.
Don't know what trim or engine power, it being devoid of any badging beyond make/model. Petrol and adequately powered so probably only 60PS. Three cylinder job and while quiet enough in moderation gets rough and rorty if pushed, as it needed to be joining the A45 Nene Valley Way at 08:45 this morning. Everything in the cabin falls to hand easily - if they were planes it and the Roomie would have a common type rating.
Good all round view once I'd got mirrors in right place and a proper proportionately sized rear window. Like most modern petrols it creeps as well as a diesel in traffic and seems speed stable in 30 etc limits.
First car I've driven with heated seats which were nice first thing when it was around 5 degrees C outside. Also has stop/start, which the handover briefing didn't mention. First time it only half stopped as lights changed and I dropped the clutch again - thought it had a hesitation problem for a mo. Worked OK at three other junctions and in the 24/365 stop and start on the A5 in Towcester but I won't be rushing to take it as an option on my next car. News that Cit have deleted it from the Cactus is interesting.
Radio is 'digital by default' and hung onto R4 adequately well over 10 or so miles. Couldn't locate 5 live in presets nor how much analogue capacity it has. More time to spare on way back tonight so might have a play before setting off back.
Now it's light 'til 6 I wont have to drive it in dark but I suspect an auto dim mirror.
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Suspect? It should be obvious from the lack of a dimming lever. The MB one has a sensor spot in the glass itself, the BMW a blob where the lever would be.
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I quite like the Up/Citygo/Mii
Read somewhere that the clutches are allegedly made of cheese though.
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I like the look of it too. I'd quite fancy one - a white VW with black contrasty bits and all toys, or a very basic Skoda one - if I didn't do most of my driving on and around motorways, with the attendant concern over sitting so close to the back bumper.
As usual, I don't really know what the Seat version is for.
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>> Suspect? It should be obvious from the lack of a dimming lever. The MB one
>> has a sensor spot in the glass itself, the BMW a blob where the lever
>> would be.
It may well have. I'll look when I get back to it in 20 minutes time.
It's a courtesy car not a keeper. I only had time this morning to jump in and drive it to where I'm covering CAB outreach today. Won't drive it in dark at all unless they're wrong about mine being ready now.
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My C class estate was booked into Mercedes for 2 days last week for them to fix the stop/start that wasn't working. It was the day we had lots of disruption due to flooding. Service guy said 'there will be a slight delay, the car we booked for you is stuck in traffic, so we'll have find something else for you'. About five minutes later he came back with the keys for a 15 reg SL400....
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>> Suspect? It should be obvious from the lack of a dimming lever.
There was a dipping lever well hidden behind the mirror so perhaps the green cast to the glass was some sort of coating.
A check against the Reg no says 999cc with emissions of 98g/km. X/ref to brochure suggests it's a 75PS SE L Greentech.
If I wanted a small petrol I could live with it but I'd want to look at quite a few other models as well.
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Could be tempted but I'd probably buy a Panda. I like Pandas.
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Took the GS for its annual service the other day. Book time was 2 and 3/4 hours. There was an "issue" with their staffing and it was clear the bike wouldn't be ready until close of business. In fairness they gave me a very little (well 900cc) BMW F800R. Parallel twin. No ball of fire and seemed a bit juicy to me. However the 150 mile round trip was ok, but no grin factor.
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Mrs B's 'lingo in today for 50k service. Loan car is an bright metallic blue C3 in 'Edition' trim. Engine is petrol, 1200cc according to DVLA site. A quick squint under the bonnet confirms what the 'rorty' engine suggested - another 3 cylinder job. Only done 250 miles from delivery and not yet been refuelled judging by dash display.
Comfortable enough with 4 doors and easily sorted driving position. Seems to have a few toys including cruise/limit but I cannot be bothered playing with them. Similar radio/CD to the Berlingo - analogue only with 3 VHF/FM memory banks and one for AM including long wave.
Computer said it had 112miles left in tank when I picked up but that was on 150 by time I got home. I'm probably first customer to take it out of urban MK.
OK for this job but wouldn't want one of my own. The Citigo was a better urban car.
Off to work for a staff meeting shortly. Will put a few litres in on way back to be on safe side.
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This was unexpected. The Chariot is having its climate control fixed, and I was expecting something like a 318d saloon. Instead, I have this, and mixed feelings.
Good is that it's easy to get comfortable, with plenty of room for head, knees and feet. It's quiet and very smooth, with a softer ride than my M-sport suspension gives me (hardly a surprise) but, importantly, none of the high-frequency jiggling that made our own 7-seat Toyota Verso such a chore on a long drive.
This one also has the great 8-speed automatic, with sports shifter and paddies - which aren't much use on the M4 but might take me the bendy way back to Taplow this afternoon, just for fun. It has start-stop, of course - except that I was half an hour into my journey before I realized the engine had been stopping at the lights; completely unobtrusive.
Less impressive is the view out: an oddly shaped interior mirror, a smallish rear window and dark rear glass make it more of an effort than I would like to check what's around me. It seems sluggish too, in contrast to the 220i coupé I tried last year, with the same engine and gearbox; the extra weight of all that bodywork, I suppose.
So quite a nice machine, but would I consider one? No. It has seven seats but there's no kneeroom to speak of even in the second row pushed right back. The front seats have nasty plastic tray-tables on their backs, but even without these I wouldn't be able to get in behind myself, nor would either Beestling. I've not looked in the boot but without a usable rear seat, that's an irrelevance.
So it looks like a people carrier but can't really carry people, while the bulk of the body blunts its performance and (probably) the handling too. Pity, because it looks like such a nice machine.
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It's the child if the devil, the beginning of the end, the very nemesis of it.
A front wheel drive BMW for goodness sake.
All very well, while they try to disguise them as Minis, but a BMW with its engine turned sideways, I'm not sure I have the words to express my dismay.
;-)
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Well, turns out I've got to keep it tonight. After replacing one stepper motor, the dealer has decided there's another one to do. Maybe 7 litres wasn't too much to put in the tank this morning after all.
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Drove it the bendy, poorly surfaced way home and I have to say it's surprisingly capable. Still slow compared with the 325 but the ride and steering don't go to pieces over broken tarmac and mid-bend bumps.
And the automatic box with its clicky, snappy, far-from-flappy paddles is just brilliant. Reminds me how much I liked that little coupé.
Still can't work out what it's for, though, with so little space inside. A numerous, sporty but short-legged family, perhaps.
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It's for driving around with the right badge on the bonnet, trying to show people that, just because you need an MPV, you haven't "given up on life" entirely.
;-)
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Hmm. The Teiegraph said soon after launch
...unless you really want your seven-seater to wear a BMW badge there are more practical options that will cost you far less, such as the Vauxhall Zafira...
I don't, of course, want a seven-seater at all. But this one didn't make me cry as I walked out to drive it to work this morning.
Beestling Major tried the second row last night and pronounced it habitable, once he'd found a way to unclip the plastic tables. But the folded third row still steals valuable height from what would otherwise be a good load area. And the petrol 220i looks fast on paper - 190hp, 7.7s - but doesn't feel as lively as the diesel LEC, which has a numerical disadvantage of 20hp and 200kg. I suspect a 220d (400Nm, like the LEC, against 280) would work better, even if it might sound rougher.
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Posting this as an aside here rather than start a new thread as it's peripheral to the car I was loaned on Tuesday.
Options with Perrys courtesy cars are to take their insurance at a nominal £10 or arrange cover under your own policy. Mrs B and I are both fully comp with LV and named on each other's policies. Both certificates specify the insured vehicle to be (a) my/her car i/d by reg and (b) a courtesy vehicle provided by the motor trade while that vehicle is being serviced or repaired. Presumably this is done to save faffing with cover notes, specifying vehicles and registrations and further complications if the anticipated courtesy car has to be subbed.
On two occasions I've had issues because the guys on the service desk goes straight to the third party only driving other cars note on certificate and tells me it's not good enough, 3rd party only. In fact it wouldn't even provide that as it's Mrs B's insurance not mine. With varying degrees of patience (I was told off for raising my voice this time) I inform them I'm not relying on that but the wording re insured vehicle. They still won't take it at face value until we've rung LV and got it from the horses mouth. That's been OK both times but if we drew somebody at LV who was hot on Data Protection they could refuse to deal with me.
How do others deal with insuring loan cars?
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By having a policy (Aviva in my case) that includes it.
Any motor vehicle not exceeding 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight loaned to a permitted driver as shown on your certificate of motor insurance for up to seven days by a garage, motor engineer or vehicle repairer while the vehicle described in your schedule is being either serviced, repaired or having an MoT test.
This is the third of three categories - the first being my own vehicles - to which the full cover under the policy applies.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Thu 16 Jun 16 at 11:18
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>> By having a policy (Aviva in my case) that includes it.
That's pretty much same principle as mine. I think the dealer's response reflects (a) a 'Pavlov' reaction to the number of people who would wing it on the driving other cars extension and (b) a company policy of blaming the service receptionist in event of an uninsured claim.
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How do others deal with insuring loan cars?
>>
I mainly diy my own car servicing/work so quiet rare i get a loan car. Last time i did though they just gave me the keys, no paperwork at at all didn't even sign for it.
Never heard of them charging for ins though, is that the new norm? If it were me I'd pay the tenner because I couldn't be bothered with all the faffing about or I'd just go somewhere else.
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Seems to be. Watch out for excess on dealer policies - can be as much as £1,000.
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>> Seems to be. Watch out for excess on dealer policies - can be as much
>> as £1,000.
That's why I want it on my policy.
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>> Seems to be. Watch out for excess on dealer policies - can be as much as £1,000.
>>
That's reminds me someone in the family had an accident, they had a hire car dropped off. When they came in the house with the paperwork, it had some silly high excess on it, so they refused the car and sent it back.
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"(I was told off for raising my voice this time)"
That's one dealer I wouldn't go back to if it happened to me. They shouldn't have been so unhelpful as to cause you to raise your voice - and in any case they have forgotten that the customer is always right.
Interesting re the 220i, WdB, as that was high on my shortlist this year, and my initial preference was for petrol power. It took a long time to find a petrol demonstrator, as most of them are diesels: and you're right, it wasn't nearly as lively low down as the lovely torquey engine in the dear departed Octavia vRS.
What really settled it in favour of a V60 was that I could get £6,000 off the list price of the Volvo but very little discount on a 2-series, even though apparently they're not selling all that well.
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I suspect you're right about the sales, Avant. As I arrived back at the dealer yesterday, another 220i Gran Buggy pulled up and its driver also reported to service reception. The cars they can sell without trying don't end up on the courtesy fleet.
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Roomie in for annual service - it's coming up on time rather than miles now I'm not doing Uni runs.
Courtesy car is a pretty well brand new Fabia, white but with a grey/red stripe from front to back over roof and red covers on the mirrors. Petrol and according to DVLA 999cc. A bit of digging suggests it's a TSI 110 and a Redline Special Edition.
Like several others I've reported on it's three cylinder engine, a turbo, is reasonably smooth at idle but quite raucous when your put your foot down. Controls follow usual VAG protocol so after the Roomster everything falls to hand. Stop start caught me out for a fraction when I thought it'd stalled at lights but operates pretty seamlessly. The 110 motor in a smallish car gives very good acceleration, easy joining at slip roads etc.
A deviation onto the M1 from 15 to 16 showed it's quiet and comfortable at 70 in 6th and pulls out smartly enough to overtake although it's a good idea to drop to 5th if you want to pull into a busy lane 3. Computer suggests it's doing well over 40 to gallon in spite of what's presumably a lot of cold start stop/go.
Although the service guy who handed it over suggested it had lots of toys, it is, apart from having modern info screens and bluetooth not much advance on the Roomster - the addition being cruise. No satnav though. In fact the trim is downright basic. Seat covers are a rough charcoal cloth, comfortable to sit on and with ample support once I'd raised it up a bit but look as if they'd be devil's own job to keep clean. Rear windows are wind down!.
Decent sized boot which easily passes the can it swallow a Brompton test. Courtesy pack including top up oil was still in boot along with an umbrella.
Thought I'd have it all day but Rachel from service has just rung to say the Roomie's ready. Will pop back via Morrisons to replace the fuel I've used - a fiver's worth should do it.
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Not needed courtesy cars recently as the Citroen dealership in MK do a while u wait service and the Skoda garage is five minutes from work on the Brompton.
Berlingo in for a cambelt change today. Advised at service earlier in the month that it was due at 112,500 which is just about to come up. It's a long job so courtesy car needed. Also first time using the newly appointed local(ish) Citroen agent Bristol Street. Northampton. The town was long the home of Moto Baldet who flooded the local market with BX, ZX etc, but they were absorbed into a chain which then closed the site and the town was bereft of an agent for last few years.
Bristol Street are a multi franchise outfit and seem to have Citroen tacked on as an afterthought at their Vauxhall premises.
Courtesy car is a Red 20 reg Corsa. No clear trim badging but its got a decent number of toys. Radio and other ICE etc is on a central touch screen but heater controls are a mix of rotary and piano keys in the centre console in front of the gearstick. Radio is digital and, at pickup, set to a Heart station playing some dire youth genre. Couple of jabs at the screen brought up a station list and the calming voices of the Today prog.
Radio display seems to have some sort of auto brightness and, in low sun/in out of shade, constantly flickered from dim to bright and back again. Can't be bothered faffing in the menu to stop it but it's not a feature I'd use if it were mine.
Engine is (per DVLA) 1199cc and has the now near universal 3 cylinder configuration. Performance is adequate but nothing like as sprightly as my Fabia. That, and CO2 of 126g/km, suggest it's a basic 70PS unit.
Driving wise it's in the if it were a sandwich it would be processed cheese on white bread category. Everything is adequate although it wasn't until I got home that I could get the steering wheel retracted back towards the dash - uncomfortably close to start with. Display on the dash notes the speed limit although it was a bit erratic tracking it on various sections of the Nene Valley Way/ring road and subsequent rural lanes. Usual nag light telling me to change gear far too soon leaving the engine feeling like it's labouring. Stop/start not working for some reason, maybe too much local use leading to the battery being undercharged.
Looks as though it would set 5 albeit not in comfort and the boot passes the Brompton test.
OK for what I'm using it for but wouldn't want one for my own use but then I prefer the next size up albeit the Fabia is closer to a Polo than a Golf.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 22 Oct 21 at 10:34
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Re Buttons...
The Tucson has one of those displays that looks like a tablet stuck on the dash.
I'm just waiting for the Mother in Law to use it as a grab handle and pull it off at some point.
It has physical buttons on the left and right of the display. However, the most used buttons (radio, media and seek) are on the left hand side whilst the least used buttons (map, nav and setup) are on the right. I wonder if its a cross-over from LHD models and has not been changed to suit RHD cars?
I guess the designers may have thought that nav and map would be used more, but once I set a destination, the nav functions tend not to be used again, whilst I might change the radio several times.
Also, does anyone know why Apple Car Play requires the phone to be plugged in to the unit?
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>> used buttons (map, nav and setup) are on the right. I wonder if its a
>> cross-over from LHD models and has not been changed to suit RHD cars?
The Beemer has "unconverted" heating panel, with rear screen and screen defrost buttons being an armstretch away.
>> Also, does anyone know why Apple Car Play requires the phone to be plugged in
>> to the unit?
Its car software/hardware, only more recent cars have the wifi access point for Carplay (or Android auto) untethered. Wifi may have been a feature you didn't specify.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 22 Oct 21 at 12:15
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>>Wifi may have been a feature you didn't specify.
>>
When I got it, it was an offer for new built but not registered cars, 90% of which were manual and white. I was lucky to get an auto and metallic grey (dark knight - who makes up these names?). There were no options available.
Tbh, li don’t think there are many options on the built to order models either. Keeps the production line simpler I guess.
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>> Also, does anyone know why Apple Car Play requires the phone to be plugged in
>> to the unit?
I don't know, but the Android version is the same.
Which reminds me, I need a new USB lead for my phone in the Fabia, the current one has dodgy connections so Android Auto will not work reliably; it's up down like a Fiddler's Elbow (another analogies also availble).
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>> it's up
>> down like a Fiddler's Elbow (another analogies also availble).
Like a hoars* drawers as my dear ole cockney ma would say
*wh***s
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 22 Oct 21 at 12:18
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"like a Bride's nightie" as my uncle used to say.
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I knew Z's but I'd forgotten that one.
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I recall my parents using: In and out like a dog at a fair.
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Whenever Android Auto and car stop playing nicely for me I replace the USB cable with one in about the 5 to 8 quid range from Amazon, and it works for about a year.
Last time, I looked at these new WiFi adaptor things, but not yet spent the fifty quid or so to get one.
9to5google.com/2021/08/19/carsifi-android-auto-wireless-dongle/
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>> 9to5google.com/2021/08/19/carsifi-android-auto-wireless-dongle/
All well and good, but it doesn't charge the phone, and google maps (and more so Waze) consume a fair amount of power.
Which is why most wifi access points in cars include cable free charging for phones that support it.
(despite the fact wireless charging does not put the volts in faster than navigation sucks it out, but it delays the inevitable)
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Henry has a wireless charging pad for my iPhone. Far too clever for me, but ‘ I think’ it needs to be plugged into a USB socket to operate Apple Car Play.
I don’t think there is a fee for Apple Car Play....although the Focus is only 2yo.
Once out of warranty there may be a fee...I read somewhere that’s the case with some marques, but seems odd to have no consistency.
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>> Henry has a wireless charging pad for my iPhone. Far too clever for me, but
>> ‘ I think’ it needs to be plugged into a USB socket to operate Apple
>> Car Play.
>>
>> I don’t think there is a fee for Apple Car Play....although the Focus is only
>> 2yo.
>> Once out of warranty there may be a fee...I read somewhere that’s the case with
>> some marques, but seems odd to have no consistency.
No - no annual fee for the use of carplay or auto, but it might have been a cost option up front.
Dont get airplay mixed up with "remote" features, remote (very) locking, find my car, send direction to sat nav, read email in car etc etc, for which there will be a fee. Might be a fee for Alexa in car too, in fact you may need amazon prime to get it.
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Corsa now returned and Berlingo back on the drive. Price of £565 including £20 for the courtesy car seems a bit of a wallet hit but the car's 8 years old and well over 100k miles. They did the water pump too; forgot that for a minute when wondering while 2 units of coolant additive were on the bill.
Still, next time they tell me at service it's due a coolant change I can happily decline.
Coarser was definitely the low grunt version. Acceleration joining the Nene Valley Way, a fast moving free for all, was downright sluggardly; the Berlingo would have shown it a clean pair of heels. Noisy too at 3000rpm.
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Charging for courtesy cars always seems like a cheek to me…it’s not that much of a courtesy if you’re paying for it I don’t think. The Merc was in for some work at the beginning of the week, including a service… they wanted £33 a day for what they now call a loan car. But, as it was in for 2 days as it needed some warranty work too (the roof wasn’t latching properly when opened…solution, a new roof…!!) they generously waived the charge…
It was only afterwards I realised that part of the ‘B’ service is replacing the battery in the key. But, I’d taken the spare key which has never been used… so that was a bit silly of me
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One of my neighbours cars, an ageing Porsche SUV from 2004 , needed new ABS sensors, which were not available.
He was lent a brand-new Volvo XC90 plug in hybrid form - no charge - for 6 weeks!
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My local main dealer give you a free loan car, but charge around £30 a day for insurance. I took the bus.
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My Comprehensive cover gives me insurance foc on a courtesy car for up to 5 days use.
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So does mine (LV) but when I tried to use it my Honda dealer put some obstacle in the way that made it a pain. From memory they needed written cover specifically covering the particular car. It was only a tenner for the dealer insurance so I just coughed up.
My indie’s courtesy car on the other hand is free with petrol on an honesty system, they never check. It’s an ancient cosmetically challenged Clio but all the safety stuff works.
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Yes, I had the same experience as Martin's Honda one with my Vx dealer.
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>> Yes, I had the same experience as Martin's Honda one with my Vx dealer.
I've also had this experience - related further up this thread. Seems that if reception staff let a car out without sorting insurance or on customers 'driving other cars' third party only then they're hung out to dry.
On two occasions we had to ring LV to seek confirmation.
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Didn’t the law change a few years ago, creating a new offence of permitting someone to drive without insurance? A strict liability offence IIRC, resulting in a fine and points if true. So I can see why a dealer employee would be unwilling to take a customers word for the fact they were insured, as they’d be the one on the hook for permitting the car to go out of the dealership without insurance. Much easier to insist on dealer insurance I guess.
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Also with LV with that cover. Not used it for a courtesy car for a few years, but even then the dealers would be a bit sniffy, and want to photocopy the paperwork and get a disclaimer signed, so not surprising they much prefer or insist on doing it their way at your cost.
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>> Didn’t the law change a few years ago, creating a new offence of permitting someone
>> to drive without insurance? A strict liability offence IIRC, resulting in a fine and points
>> if true.
Not sure how long it's been an offence but it certainly is now.
Aside from the general need for enforcement people getting S172 notices were claiming their vehicle was driven by a cousin who has returned to Australia. In such a case now you'll be required to show they were insured or a permitting charge is likely to follow.
I got caught locally at the beginning of last month (exact place Mrs B got 'done' 17 years ago) and that threat was in the paperwork. Speed awareness course (via Zoom) booked for end of November.
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Whereabouts Bromp?
I damn near got done on that camera just past Silverstone on the A43 the other day, only remembered it at the last minute.
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>> Whereabouts Bromp?
>>
>> I damn near got done on that camera just past Silverstone on the A43 the
>> other day, only remembered it at the last minute.
Is that the one by the Green Man?
For a long time the Truevelos in Northants were turned off after changes to fine distribution turned them into a financial deadweight for the old County Council. Maybe they're on again now. That, and the one on the other side of Towcester by the Blisworth turn both cover known blackspots.
We were both caught by the mobile camera on Butchers Lane in Patishall, just before the Fosters Booth junction with the A5. Only 1mph over the guidance number, if I'd dabbed the brakes a tad harder when a bloke going the other way flashed his headlights I'd have been OK. In fact I thought I'd got it down before he could draw a bead on me but he was crafty enough to focus on vehicles immediately they came into his view.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 31 Oct 21 at 17:26
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>>Is that the one by the Green Man?
That's the one.
>>We were both caught by the mobile camera on Butchers Lane in Patishall
You were unlucky, I don't think I've often managed to get more than 20mph along there what with all the parked cars, cars coming the other way and stuff.
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>> You were unlucky, I don't think I've often managed to get more than 20mph along
>> there what with all the parked cars, cars coming the other way and stuff.
I was out early doors taking the Berlingo down to MK for a service, caught a few seconds after 08:00. No complaints about the camera being there, it's needed just as much as here by the Secondary School.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 31 Oct 21 at 17:47
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I had my Golf MK7 serviced in September and had, as a courtesy car that dreaded Golf MK8.
I can't say I was looking forward to driving around in that for the rest of the day and indeed my fears were substantiated.
All aspects of the fairly basic model new Golf were dreadful particularly of course the awful electronic dash and knob-less control of the most useful actions.
The inside was cheap and nasty and I missed the nice little storage pod to the right of the steering wheel. Everything looked and felt cheap and the bright display in front of the driver was worse than I imagined it would be.
I was so glad to get rid of this car later that day and get my own car back.
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Gosh who knows we may both have driven the same car... wasn't white was it??
I had the GTi down at Otford last week to sort out a dash creak under warranty and had Mk8 for a couple of days.
As you've said there's nothing in the new setup that would make me want to swap, let alone the build time now for a GTi or ClubSport is getting close to 54wks according to the drivers on the GTi forum I go on.
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i was given a Mk8 Golf last month as a hire car for the day.
Infotainment system and all menus for other controls were an absolute nightmare, not to mention a distraction from keeping your eyes on the road.
Every other car I've had with stop/start, there is a button somewhere obvious, which is either on the dash or centre console to turn it off/on.
It was in a hidden menu in the infotainment system screen.
Same with the lane departure warning. That's the first thing I turn off as I cannot stand the forced feedback through the steering wheel when the car think I am not in the correct place on the road.
This function was hidden in the speedo display menu and had to be turned off using the steering wheel controls. Why not have a visible button like every other car to turn on/off?
Every other car I've been in, once switched off, that's it. It remains switched off. The Golf Mk8 defaults to it being switched back on again every time you unlock and get in the car. And then you have to remember how to switch it off again - Grrrrr
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I think I'm lucky in that I bought my GTi when it still had all of the nice buttons but also has many of the bells and whistles as standard that you now have to pay for as options (rear camera, heated seats etc)... still think the 7.5 is better looking than the 8.
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>> Gosh who knows we may both have driven the same car... wasn't white was it??
>>
>> I had the GTi down at Otford last week to sort out a dash creak
Yes a White one from their Bromley branch. A ghastly iteration of what was once a decent car, having had three to date but no more until VW et.al come to their senses.
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Oh well I'm down at Sevenoaks so unless they share cars it might be a different one (same franchise), had to wait since the beginning of September to get a car! If I didn't need a car it would have been a lot quicker.
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VW's can be a bit odd. I've got electric door mirrors on the Polo (About the most useless feature going for most people) and wind up windows.
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Idris's Polo had electric windows, and electric mirrors, but no remote central locking.......
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>> Idris's Polo had electric windows, and electric mirrors, but no remote central locking.......
>>
I had an Avis Polo from EDI 6 or 7 years ago like that. Was very confusing…I couldn’t understand how to open it for a few moments!
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One thing I've noticed on the VW's I've owned (Lupo, Polo)is that the horn does not work with the Ignition turned off but the brake lights do. I'm sure it is the other way round on everything else I've had, the rational being that you might still need to sound a warning while stationary.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 9 Nov 21 at 15:40
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>>the rational being that you
>> might still need to sound a warning while stationary.
Isn't it illegal to sound your horn whilst stationary?
Although that didn't stop me this afternoon while waiting for a car to exit a junction in front of me. The stupid woman was blocking the junction whilst waitng for her little darlings to get in!
The standard of driving I witnessed this afternoon was deadful, mostly from cars with 'prat plates'.
The BMW that did a U turn at traffic lights where no U turn was clearly signposted.
The Landrover that reversed out of his drive and blocked the road while the driver decided what to do.
The cyclist that came off the pavement straight onto a zebra crossing and expected everyone to give way to her (yes it was a zebra, not off a cycle track).
The motorbike that had never understood the 'give way to the right at roundabouts'. It had 'L' plates up and I suspect the rider will never pass their test before becoming an organ donor.
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You can sound your horn while stationary if someone is in danger I think. Every German car I’ve had has had brake lights that worked with the ignition off. But I don’t recall that being the case for the other cars.
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>> Isn't it illegal to sound your horn whilst stationary?
If that were the case, then there would be a lot of MOT testers breaking the law ;)
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>> The BMW that did a U turn at traffic lights where no U turn was
>> clearly signposted.
BMW drivers consider road signs as merely suggestions.
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>> BMW drivers consider road signs as merely suggestions.
...for drivers of lesser cars.
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I thought I'd go and look up the highway code on line:
Rule 112
The horn. Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence. Never sound your horn aggressively. You MUST NOT use your horn
while stationary on the road
I've no defence for what I did, however, the driver of the car that stopped and blocked a junction?????????????????
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That makes no sense. What if (as has happened to me in the past) you're sat at traffic lights on a slight slope and the car in front starts to roll back into you? Surely the fact that you're stopped doesn't stop you needing to occasionally warn other road users of your presence?
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>> That makes no sense. What if (as has happened to me in the past) you're
>> sat at traffic lights on a slight slope and the car in front starts to
>> roll back into you? Surely the fact that you're stopped doesn't stop you needing to
>> occasionally warn other road users of your presence?
I wonder whether, in road law language, stationary means more than just stopped - see making a call with a hand held phone for example.
The mischief the law addresses is presumably the old 'taxi's blowing his horn' thing.
All sorts of reasons you might use the horn while stopped. The vehicle sliding back thing is but one, another would be a pedestrian about to put themself at risk - waling in front of you and into moving traffic.
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>..another would be a pedestrian about to put themself at risk - waling
>in front of you and into moving traffic.
Not a UK thing thankfully but on a driving test in Texas you lose marks if you don't use the horn if there are people on the sidewalk who might not have noticed you. It's supposedly to warn them that you are approaching and an indication to the examiner that you are observant.
You feel a right tit tooting the horn at every pedestrian and gardener even though they're used to it and just ignore you.
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Today's Courtesy Car - VxFan
