Daughter has a Hotpoint washer/dryer (£450 just over 2 years ago from Currys) which is really really lightly used. Probably a moderate load once a fortnight.
As part of a kitchen refit she has had the old fashioned fuseboard replaced with an fancy new consumer unit.
This now trips every time she turns the machine on.
Same result if it's plugged into a different socket, and other devices plugged into the washing machine socket don't trip it.
It may have had a problem prior to the consumer unit being changed, but the old fusebox was not sufficiently sensitive to worry about it.
Currys have said it's out of warranty but they will send someone to fix it for £119.
It's thought that the warranty might be 2 years, in which case I am inclined to pleased with Hotpoint that it ought not have failed in this time.
Anyone got any ideas on what may have caused it or suggestions on where next? It looks like diagnosing is trial and error so anyone we get out for it would need to be on a fixed price.
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Check with Hotpoint's service operation. There is IIRC a five year parts guarantee you use them, and they will may well offer a fixed or maximum labour price.
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At what point in the washing cycle does it trip? You say it trips as soon as it's turned on, so not running a wash cycle - it's just on?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 27 Apr 16 at 14:24
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A possibility is the heating element. I've had a kettle and a large electric urn (the village hall's not mine) do this when the element failed.
Does it work on a cold rinse cycle?
Probably irrelevant if you are just looking for somebody to come and fix it. Hotpoint would be my first call.
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This has all arisen while I've been in Egypt, and her kitchen was finished, so info is a bit sketchy at the moment.
Apparently before the kitchen was started it "threw a wobbly" and showed error codes (I doubt we'll ever know what they were but I'll ask...)
It was mid-cycle, but not sure quit what stage. There were some towels in there but no water and she followed the manual to get the door open.
Now it just trips as soon as power is put on to it.
So I understand!
Keep the questions coming and I'll try to get answers tonight... :-)
btw Currys offered 2 year guarantee and it is 2y 4m old. I'm thinking maybe a gentle attack on the "fit for purpose" angle...
They do free parts up to five years apparently but the parts are not the pricey bit.
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>>It was mid-cycle, but not sure quit what stage. There were some towels in there but no water and she followed the manual to get the door open.
My money's on something to do with this. Have you seen the you tube clip of a brick in a washing machine? I suspect a couple of towels could weigh even more. I know our washing machine has a tendency to dance around the room when it tries to spin towels.
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Could be, BT. Our Miele was beaten about a year ago by an unbalanced load. But it was 14 years old at the time. The dampers were worn out allowing the drum to bang around and the reversing relay on the main board shorted. I got the board repaired and changed the dampers, cost about £30, and it's been fine since then.
The drum goes back and forth a bit to distribute the load before spinning. That doesn't always work well when there are only one or two heavy items.
It won't be the same fault, but one might have been triggered, or tipped over the edge, by the towels.
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When it is plugged in or when it is switched on?
Check for obvious stuff, plug, damaged wire, check the connections just inside the back where the mains lead goes etc. Water in the switch.
Is it practical to plug into the neighbour's house using an extension?
But in the absence of something obvious i'd be coughing up the £118 and if that discovered something approproate for pursuing Hotpoint i would do it after.
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Yeah I did think I would go over and check the status of the plug.
Not sure she's sufficiently friendly with the neighbours but I suspect it will work if on fuses but not on MCBs.
The problem is the kitchen is a really tight area and she has had a new wooden floor laid, and the kitchen man was really precious about how the appliances were moved around on it - he did them all himself!! So I don't want to drag the thing around and spoil her new floor...
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>> So I don't want to drag the thing around and spoil her new floor...
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Use washing up liquid as a lubricant, it is slippery and easily cleaned up.
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>> Use washing up liquid as a lubricant, it is slippery and easily cleaned up.
That an old sailors tip?
;-)
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>> That an old sailors tip?
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>> ;-)
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Only for moving white goods.
Lots of lube and hydraulic oil in submarines, and now women I believe.
Things have certainly moved on since my day.
www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2014/january/16/140116-top-100-employer
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"The problem is the kitchen is a really tight area and she has had a new wooden floor laid,........."
Last year, we had a new vinyl floor in our new kitchen/utility room. When it came to sliding the washing-machine under the work-surface, the flooring-fitter used a piece of thin plywood glued onto an off-cut of thin-pile carpet. The machine sat on the plywood, and it was all pushed into place with the carpet sliding over the new floor. It was very effective and, as space is a bit tight there, the ply/carpet has stayed in position until we have to move the machine again.
IIRC, the original piece of ply was about 4' x 2' and should have been withdrawn as soon as the washing machine was in place but, as the space was too tight to use that, he just sawed it in two, saying "Keep that in place, I've got a load more of these".
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>> But in the absence of something obvious i'd be coughing up the £118 and if
>> that discovered something approproate for pursuing Hotpoint i would do it after.
I meant Hotpoint Service network for a fixed price quote not a claim under SOGA.
I predict that a SOGA claim against Currys will not get very far, or at least not very fast. Their entire service cover business depends on not just accepting the popular (incorrect) belief that SOGA entitles the buyer to a repair or replacement in all cases for appliances up to 6 years old. Who'd buy 5 year cover? Currys are not alone in this.
The only retailer I'd have any hope with for a swap or refund, in the absence of an explicit 5 year guarantee, would be Costco. Someone I know took a broken down 5 year old dishwasher back a couple of weeks ago and got a refund.
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John Lewis is pretty good in that area too. Our JL-badged AEG dishwasher needed a new control panel just after what we thought was a 3-year warranty had expired. JL sent an engineer to fit it, all FOC, and seems to be insisting on covering the machine for a further two years.
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Our IKEA cooker extractor started playing up after 5 years - a lighting problem. Bloke sent out within a week and fixed FOC. Didn't even need proof of purchase - it's IKEA branded, where else would we have bought it?
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Is it a plane MCB (miniature circuit breaker) trip, or is it a ELCB (earth leakage circuit breaker) or similar trip?
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Hmmm no idea about the consumer board. It is a very basic flat and it was a reasonably low cost job so if one is significantly cheaper then that'll be it.
Point taken re SOGA. I'm prepared to cough up for it but will probably try for a free repair first. 2y 4m of low usage really isn't very fit for purpose though, especially as the fault probably occurred some time back but has only just come to light. As Mark says I may well cough for the repair but then take the bill to the manufacturer depending on the cause.
EDIT: CostCo are wonderful, they refunded a £900+ patio set which was under a year old, and let me keep the patio set, because some of the ceramic tiles (err I think that's what they are) had lifted. I suppose I need to fix that this spring...
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 27 Apr 16 at 15:45
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If it helps:
A friend electrician recently upgraded my home system with a new modern consumer unit. Just before "switch-on" and the start of testing he said he reckoned my wiring was almost certainly OK and if it tripped the most likely cause would be the hot water immersion heater element.
Apparently these are notorious for failing, but not quite enough for an old fashioned fuse.
As it happens, all went well in my case.
My strong suggestion as to the washing machine fault seconds another view on here - it's likely the heating element. I'd try there first.
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If it trips when it is plugged in but not switched on, then it likely is the plug, mains lead or switch. ought to be fairly easy to spot.
If it trips when it is plugged in AND switched on, then it is something within the machine beyond and including the switch.
I would doubt the heating element, because its occurring before a cycle has begun. I'd probably reckon on the main control unit - but I am no expert.
So I'd still do the basic check for the first cases, then reckon I was getting bargain if I needed to use the £119 fixed price repair, and be content to fight for a refund if I thought I stood a chance.
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I'll be getting more info tonight but the kitchen man looked at the plug and fuse and apparently OK. it may well have been mid-cycle when it first went wrong, I have asked if she captured the error codes. She had to use some process from the manual to get her towels out. May have been on the drying cycle, and maybe it's stuck there whenever the power goes on - I dunno...
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How far away from you is the flat? I ask because it might be cheaper and easier to pay for the repair than to travel there and back. Assuming it's fixable at a fixed price.
We had a washer/dryer blow a circuit board because suds got out of the drum via a hole that was there for some purpose. The hole was above the circuit board so the drip onto it blew it. Fixed by replacing the board and it ran for years longer. It was a Indesit I think.
So far you probably don't know enough to diagnose this remotely but might well do when you speak to her later. Are we sure when she says it trips when switched on it's when she powers on the machine but has no programme running. Or is it when the programme starts.
Those previous error codes would well be relevant.
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Ours always trips late on a rainy night. Naturally the fuse box thingies are outside.
Usually I find that turning everything on in different orders works eventually. If it doesn't, the thing to do is to curse discreetly and send for the urgent-Scheisse blokes.
All will be well in the end with luck. Honestly.
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You could try replacing the wall switch/socket. I had one which showed signs of burning from the washing machine plug. Clearly some sort of resistance / short. New one cured the issue.
Also check the wire securing screws in the back of the socket. These can actually work loose of their own accord.
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>> Also check the wire securing screws in the back of the socket. These can actually
>> work loose of their own accord.
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Well worth checking the plug or socket first in cases of unexplained tripping or burnt fuses.
I read on an electrical forum that the practice of doubling cables over to make them thicker and fill the hole is actually not a good idea. Apparently the copper gradually creeps as the doubled wire squeezes, so the screw becomes loose and arcing and overheating develops.
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I have 2 sons who had similar issues with the tripping of the breakers in new build houses.
No 1 son
1) The problem was not the appliances but the multiple switch in the kitchen. Wall mounted switches which covered 8 powered sockets in kitchen - covering washing machine, drier, fridge, freezer etc etc was the faulty item.
No 2 son
2) Mouse had got into house & gnawed its way partially through the cable - fried the mouse & gave intermittent cuts in the circuit which could blow again after reset - no damage to appliances only the cable & mouse..
Last edited by: Falkirk Bairn on Wed 27 Apr 16 at 20:41
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My Hotpoint (forget which model) threw a wobbly one day. never seen the error messages before but a quick check of the manual revealed a blocked filter.
Access was obtained from the front of the machine - removed a panel and slowly unscrewed a valve. Lots of water came out which sits naturally at the bottom but eventually I was able to remove the filter which revealed a 20p piece, daughter's hairclip and a sewing needle which was all preventing the pump from spinning.
If the machine wants to spin the pump before a cycle to remove residual water, maybe its tripping the fuse?
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I'm guessing a bit here.
She had done a wash and it was going into the drying cycle as it stopped, with unknown errors.
Been over there today and I checked the filter, you're right, there is a lot of water but there was nothing blocking it.
The machine has an on/off switch but I can't tell which way it is. But as soon as you plug it in, the consumer unit trips. I think I mentioned that other devices in the same socket don't trip, and the washing machine in any other socket does trip.
I visually checked the condition of the plug etc and changed the fuse FWIW.
I took some pics of the consumer unit. It's not the switch marked Sockets which is tripping, it is a larger one with a green label saying RCCB Protected.
I am not doing any more with it. I will contact Hotpoint and see if they will make a goodwill payment towards the repair as 2y 4m of light use on a £450 machine isn't fit for purpose in my mind.
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>> goodwill payment towards the repair as 2y 4m of light use on a £450 machine isn't fit for
>> purpose in my mind.
Doesn't sound fit for purpose to me either. It should not have gone wrong in 2 years and 4 months.
It probably didn't blow a fuse before because it's not tripping a mini circuit breaker now. You said its RCCB - so residual-current circuit breaker, also usually referred to as RCD in the UK. Suggests there's a short circuit to me.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 28 Apr 16 at 17:36
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So I would imagine if you plugged the washer into a separate RCD it would trip that before the one on the consumer unit? Or maybe both would trip at the same time.
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I'm not sure how the circuits work, it's only a small flat and I doubt there are many. The thing which trips is next to two smaller ones labelled Sockets and Shower. There are three smaller ones on the left hand side next to another RCCB, they are labelled cooker, water heater, lights. So I'm not sure how I could put it onto another one even if I wanted to. Also I suspect it would only prove more of the same...
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My Hotpoint washing machine is over 5 years old now and still going strong.
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>> My Hotpoint washing machine is over 5 years old now and still going strong.
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My BEKO washing machine is over 5 years old now and still going strong.
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My wife has a washing machine. Apparently it works.
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I take it the machine resides in your staff quarters:)
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She has something she calls a 'utility room'. I don't go in there. Smells of chemicals. Can't be good for you.
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Our BEKO washing machine which we bought from the previous owners of this property is 9 years old and still doing its stuff.
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Must be better than their dishwashers. Bought one in January and it packed up a few days back. Needs a new control unit.
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As other have said, it is most likely a failed heater element - a common issue in hard water areas.
If you have an electrical tester, e.g.
www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/electrical-testers/cat7910001
you can do a simple test for continuity/resistance on the plug's earth to neutral pin and/or the earth to live pin. A fail means that somewhere in the machine, there is a fault allowing current to leak from live to earth, or neutral to earth.
If your daughter lives in a hard water area, either install a water softener or use "Calgon" or equivalent in every wash. Wilko do their own brand much cheaper copy of Calgon.
Last edited by: BrianByPass on Thu 28 Apr 16 at 21:54
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It is a hard water area but we live not that far away and our washing machines (yes, we've had more than one in 25 years) have lasted longer than 2y 4m, and we do nothing to soften the water - though maybe we should. So I still think it worth trying Hotpoint for some goodwill.
If I were going over there I'd do that mains test but I'm not really sure what it would prove other than there is a fault. I'm not about to try to fix it myself really.
Likewise the RCD thing Rob, I suppose that would have been useful to try but it does trip other circuits when moved, and other devices don't trip that circuit so I'd think the circuit is good.
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W/Dryers are less reliable than A/Washers as a breed, but 2 and a bit years is just bad luck all the same. Unlikely to be the water, as you imply.
The fact that it conked at the beginning of the drying stage possibly suggests the heater element is implicated. But pointless speculating unless you are going to investigate it yourself.
(I am clueless really of course but I feel like an expert after my triumph with the Miele washer last year. It turned out to be a common fault so I got the board repaired and changed the drum dampers. Would that they were all so easy to work on).
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>> The fact that it conked at the beginning of the drying stage
Speculation on my part as she was able to use the mechanical process to open the locked door to remove a dripping wet towel. Or something like that... :-)
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>> Speculation on my part as she was able to use the mechanical process to open
>> the locked door to remove a dripping wet towel. Or something like that... :-)
Ah, pre-spinning rather than wumble drying? In that case I'll have 'PCB' in the sweepstake:)
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The washer-dryers I've had would unlock the door at the end of the wash programme and before starting to dry.
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I meant a plug-in RCD like you'd use for power tools. As in prove it trips another RCD to rule out the RCCB/RCD.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 28 Apr 16 at 22:52
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Hotpoint washer/dryer tripping mains - Manatee
