IIRC your caravan is a Swift Basecamp.
Are you aware of the issue with Whale water heaters in this and other models?
www.whalepumps.com/rv/news-item.aspx?
Crossed my sights 'cos some Elddis models are affected.
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Ta, Yes its a Basecamp, yes aware of the Whale Heater issue, mine is not affected.
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And its not a Caravan, its a Crossover Camping Vehicle
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And its not a Caravan, its a Crossover Camping Vehicle
Hahahahah...
Were you in north Wales this last week
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No, but I shall be in South Wales next month in the crossover camping vehicle, and a couple of trips to mid wales later int he month to pick up my new puppy.
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>>to pick up my new puppy.
Have you worn the old one out already?
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Its 8 years old and its been round the block
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8??
Has it been so long? I thought it was like 3 or 4.
Where does my life go.
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>> 8??
>>
>> Has it been so long? I thought it was like 3 or 4.
>>
>> Where does my life go.
>>
I think it was a second hand model.
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>> to pick up
>> my new puppy.
>>
What make and model are you getting?
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Golden Retriever, Bitch, the mother has the same father as my existing dog, so very similar breeding lines. 1/3 show lines 2/3 working lines.
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Does that make them Great Aunt and Great Niece? Or cousins?
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>> Does that make them Great Aunt and Great Niece? Or cousins?
no idea, can't work it out, is there some kind of on line family relationship calculator?
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Ok I think the new pup will be my dogs niece.
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>> Ok I think the new pup will be my dogs niece.
That was my conclusion too.
It can get complicated though. Two of Mrs B's relatives who are second cousins (ie their respective Mothers were first cousins) took up together. Their son is also their cousin.....
Family relationships are further complicated by fact that male half of the partnership above and brother of the female half were previously married to a pair of sisters.
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..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)
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>> ..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)
They'll need the extra digit to play the banjo.......
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>> ..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)
>>
Beat me to it!
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>> ..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)
NFN ( Normal For Norfolk ) but, it now seems Northamptonshire can be included. ;-)
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>> ..that should have increased the average digit count of the family somewhat.... ;-)
They considered this before trying for a child. Apparently second cousins are not a problem individually; different of such relationships are common as the gene pool gets a bit too shallow.
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I don't think I followed any of that, mind boggling. Something in the water is there?
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Glimpsed from the motorcycle seat was CCV being towed by a newish 5 Series. It looks quite good in the metal
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...good Lord, does that mean two people have bought one......
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>> Glimpsed from the motorcycle seat was CCV being towed by a newish 5 Series. It
>> looks quite good in the metal
Someone tows the CCV with a panamera.
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I've driven a Panamera several times ( my boss used to have one ) they are a delight to drive, but horrific to behold. Unlike a caravan, which is not so binary. ;-)
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You going to be breeding her?
Have heard that puppies are going for absolutely silly prices just now. Neighbours Lhasa apso has had two litters this year. 14 pups in total. Probably close to £25k I am guessing they will have made.
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>> You going to be breeding her?
No - too old for such hassle - me that is
>> Have heard that puppies are going for absolutely silly prices just now. Neighbours Lhasa apso
>> has had two litters this year. 14 pups in total. Probably close to £25k I
>> am guessing they will have made.
Guess again, fancy breed pups are going for 3k to 3.5k a pop.
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Next door (farmers) got a runt of the litter Lab. over the lockdown. Dog's fallen on its feet with a fleet of kids to play with - it was caught jumping on the trampoline the other day. What a lovely little dog it is.....doubt whether they paid much for it.
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Got mine from a breeder I checked out (she in turn vetted me before I was approved to go on her list), I know the breeding lines of both parents (a huge list of working trial, field trial, champions in there) and the health scores (hips eyes etc etc) are excellent, and I am lucky to be only paying £1800 quid....
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 11:54
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Eighteen hundred quid?
Fer a dug? Sheesh !
:-(
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>> Eighteen hundred quid?
>>
>> Fer a dug? Sheesh !
>>
>> :-(
>>
Not that much at all for them. Ours was 600 quid 7 years ago, now they are selling for x4 that amount. I know (of) someone who spent 4k+ on a gun dog trained spaniel and that was 4 years ago, no idea what they'd be now.
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>> Not that much at all for them. Ours was 600 quid 7 years ago, now
>> they are selling for x4 that amount. I know (of) someone who spent 4k+ on
>> a gun dog trained spaniel and that was 4 years ago, no idea what they'd
>> be now.
We used to sell part trained dogs to the police for 5-6k and that was 15 years ago. I had a chance at a good litter of springers a month or three back, pups were £1,200.
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IIRC (from daughter/her in laws) the price for their Show Cockers was higher if you intended to breed from them. Daughter's dog and in law's bitch both neutered.
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>> IIRC (from daughter/her in laws) the price for their Show Cockers was higher if you
>> intended to breed from them. Daughter's dog and in law's bitch both neutered.
>>
You mean the breeders had them neutered before selling them?
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>> You mean the breeders had them neutered before selling them?
No, they were neutered later when age appropriate. The agreement to neuter and not breed was presumably contractual.
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>> >> You mean the breeders had them neutered before selling them?
>>
>> No, they were neutered later when age appropriate. The agreement to neuter and not breed
>> was presumably contractual.
There is no "contract" when you buy a dog, its a sale not a lease. You can do what you like. Which is why good breeders vet purchasers.
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>> There is no "contract" when you buy a dog, its a sale not a lease.
>> You can do what you like.
Surely there is a contract of sale?
Even if it's unwritten there will be some implied terms. Is the animal as described for example.
If I sell you land there is a contract of sale. I may make that contract subject to conditions, for example specifying how it is developed. If you fail to observe those conditions (covenants) I may have a cause of action.
The Kennel Club provides a specimen contract for the sale of a puppy.
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Yes there is a contract of sale. You'll need one for insurance purposes, However under English law there is no way you could have a contractual term that says" I agree to have invasive surgery on, and bits of my dog removed on and before a specified date"
You can however sign a contract under the lines "not for profit" or "breeder has rights on on any puppies" But none of it is really enforceable.
I understand the sentiments of breeders who want to make sure any of their pups don't end up on puppy farms as breeding bitches, but the best they can do is to make sure you will never get a dog from any other breeder ever again (there is a breeders network)
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 14:37
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>> The Kennel Club provides a specimen contract for the sale of a puppy.
Another source specifically mentions a contract with restrictions on breeding:
www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice/puppy-sale-contracts-and-what-they-should-contain.html
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>> >> The Kennel Club provides a specimen contract for the sale of a puppy.
>>
>> Another source specifically mentions a contract with restrictions on breeding:
All that does is prevent you from putting any pups on the breeding register, you can enter any dog on the sporting register.
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>> >> You mean the breeders had them neutered before selling them?
>>
>> No, they were neutered later when age appropriate. The agreement to neuter and not breed
>> was presumably contractual.
>>
Probably more of a gentlemen's agreement, rather than anything legal.
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>> Probably more of a gentlemen's agreement, rather than anything legal.
We visited the daughter's in laws, they were friends long before our respective kids were born never mind got together, at a time when their Cocker bitch was an appealing splother footed puppy. One of those I'm not a dog person but moments....
At some stage there was a discussion about how much the dog cost (several hundred but less than a thousand) and(IIRC) that they would have had to pay more if they'd bought it intending to breed.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 14:28
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I wouldn't pay that for a "Muttley"! - plenty of good 'uns in shelters need homes!
All this selective breeding for show purposes have deformed and mutilated many many animals all in the name of vanity, Money and a few pieces of worthless paper! - Didn't the BBC stop showing Cruft's on TV in a stance on just this very point ISTR?
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Very much agree with you, there are some gruesome medical abominations in the Breed world.
However, mine is the sporting side of the dog world, dogs are chosen and bred for their capabilities, temperament to task, and their ability to perform over the majority of their lives.
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an appealing
>> splother footed puppy. One of those I'm not a dog person but moments....
Splother?
>>
>> At some stage there was a discussion about how much the dog cost (several hundred
>> but less than a thousand) and(IIRC) that they would have had to pay more if
>> they'd bought it intending to breed.
I'm sure there was a discussion, a gentleman's agreement if you like.
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>> Splother?
Splay footed, not (not yet in case of a puppy) fully co-ordinated on feet, perhaps falling over own feet. Might also apply to a newborn calf, lamb or fawn. Or a drunk. A word from my childhood. Thinking about it probably Mother's side.
Research just now suggests it's Yorkshire dialect with similar usage in Lancashire and Cheshire. Mum was West Riding.
>> I'm sure there was a discussion, a gentleman's agreement if you like.
I was referring to a discussion at the gathering where we first met the puppy. Along similar lines to here; you paid HOW much......
Having checked further it seems 'no breeding' is a standard condition, presumably around the pedigree. Neutering was choice of owner.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 16:02
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Research just now suggests it Yorkshire dialect with similar usage in Lancashire and Cheshire. Mum
>> was West Riding.
So I am, not heard that one before.
>>
>
>> I was referring to a discussion at the gathering where we first met the puppy.
>> Along similar lines to here; you paid HOW much......
Yeap, not a cheap business dogs, out of curiosity how much did you think the dog would be?
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>> Yeap, not a cheap business dogs, out of curiosity how much did you think the
>> dog would be?
I guess a bit under £500. It was £750 or thereabouts.
We had three neighbours (one moved over the summer) with Cockerpoos. Two of them Ziggy and Freddy, would often be out playing together in the cul de sac while Clap for Carers was on. Equally happy to come over to have a pet and a tummy tickle.
Another of my I'm not a dog person but moments......
Cockerpoos around a grand each it seems.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 11 Sep 20 at 16:11
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>> I guess a bit under £500. It was £750 or thereabouts.
How long ago was this?
>>
>> Cockerpoos around a grand each it seems.
>>
Not a fan of the cockerpoo thing tbh.
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>> Not a fan of the cockerpoo thing tbh.
The labradoodle is fab, they have managed to breed a dog that entirely consists of the worse parts of two breed, and completely miss the original requirement.
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You cant put a cockerpoo on the KC breed register anyway, they dont accept Mongrels on there.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 13 Sep 20 at 20:48
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Wish I was one of those clever people who know how to post photos on here. My dog is sitting at my feet at the moment under my desk. He knows that I'll be taking him out shortly, and has brought his ball that he takes on walks. He's just staring at me unblinkingly, and I'm quite sure if he had a watch on that he'd be tapping it in reprimand and nodding towards the door.
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Zero, do you let your dogs go in the canal?
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yes, blue algae is rarely an issue in the basingstoke canal, but if it does they have a good system of spotters
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Best dog I ever had was a springer from a farming community. She was the the fourth surviving runt from a litter of six who's bitch's milk had dried up (two had died). Took her at four weeks old.
Took a lot of care initially. She was mainly liver and a small dog. Subsequently learned the local community didn't want her around as she'd be a 'poachers' dog.
She arrived between the birth of my two daughters. They all seemed to think they were equal sisters. I've a wonderful photo of them all sitting on the kitchen floor with glasses of milk and biscuits. The children would no more think of pinching her biscuit as she would of theirs. They were distraught in their teenage years when she died.
Took her back to her roots and she was tried out with a twelve bore, didn't flinch, but merely scanned the sky. She and her brother would run around the fields and if one raised a rabbit, it would bark to alert the other and they'd try to work together to catch it - never did.
I was offered large sums for her, I guess for nefarious reasons.
She spent a lot of her life 'parking' squirrels up trees in the local woods a couple of times a day - they'd never come down and play despite her plaintive barks. I could walk her through the local streets at heel without a lead, she was a doddle to train. We were, apparently, a local sight.
Never had a dog like her before or since and now, never will.
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>> You cant put a cockerpoo on the KC breed register anyway, they dont accept Mongrels
>> on there.
Aye but it's the Mongrels that lead interesting lives:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHgNydyvI44
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>> You cant put a cockerpoo on the KC breed register anyway, they dont accept Mongrels
>> on there.
Riding the Monsal Trail yesterday we saw a lot of dogs that were, or had bits of, Spaniel. One that we had an ahhhhh over on the car park was apparently a Cavapoo - Cavalier King Charles and Poodle cross.
We've decided there's a line called SDD - Spaniel Derived Doggies.
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Mongrel is much shorter and trips off the tongue easily.
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Re £1800, any idea Zero if the equivalent price would have been cheaper pre Covid?
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>> Re £1800, any idea Zero if the equivalent price would have been cheaper pre Covid?
I would suspect the price I pay will be inflated by about a third. Bear in mind a Champion sheepdog sold for £20k earlier this year, an average price pre covid was about £2k.
The massive price increase has been for designer "breeds" for the home.
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Jeez, my Working Cocker from an impressive line of Field Champions cost me £400.00 in 2008.
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Friends working for a Spaniel charity are in despair of all the returns (and people thinking they will get their money back). They wonder why the puppy is getting separation anxiety when left now that the humans are returning to work!
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Now is the time to buy my online diploma and start work as a "K9 Behaviourist"
I have my strap line already, "Zero your Pooch"
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 18 Sep 20 at 09:19
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@Zero, I'd be interested in your take on this given your specialist interest.
My dog has a lead, but it hardly gets used, other than if we're in a busy town centre or something. The rest of the time he just walks beside me off the lead. He's very good and will stop, return, sit, or lie down on command. If it's safe for him to run or mooch he'll wait for permission and come back or stop if told.
I sometimes ( quite often these days it seems ) encounter people walking their cockadoodledoos or whatever genetic mix up they've bought to go with their laminate floors, grey walls and SUV, with the poor animal totally restrained on a lead even if they're in the middle of a forest or miles up a canal towpath well away from traffic. Some of them seem really nervous of a loose dog, despite his good behaviour ( he'll never approach another dog without permission ) and I've even been scolded by some for not having him restrained!
I choose to ignore these people and can only imagine that they are not very experienced in managing their pets.
I don't claim any special expertise either to be fair, all I can bring is a lifetime of being around dogs.
Now, I have a theory that these people who are unnecessarily restraining their dogs and not allowing them to socialise ( under supervision ) are doing them more of a disservice than a favour.
What's your view?
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>> My dog has a lead, but it hardly gets used,
Exactly! The last two dogs I had were the same. Choke chain and trained in the school of Barbara Woodhouse. Probably be reported to the RSPCA nowadays.
I despair when I see dogs pulling against the sort of body warmers they wear nowadays. There's a couple near me who have two leads on their obese Lab in order to hold it back from attacking any dog it sees.
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My dad was very good with dogs, different times of course, but I might have followed his ways a bit. I don't tend to start them off on a lead even as puppies, ( except in circumstances where it would be dangerous of course ) but I try to get them used to being off very early on. Treats and praise for good behaviour, rather than punishment for bad sort of thing. Dunno if that's the right way, but it's what I've always done.
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> I despair when I see dogs pulling against the sort of body warmers they wear
>> nowadays. There's a couple near me who have two leads on their obese Lab in
>> order to hold it back from attacking any dog it sees.
>>
What is it with them, are those harness things some sort of fashion item?
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>> >> My dog has a lead, but it hardly gets used,
>>
>> Exactly! The last two dogs I had were the same. Choke chain and trained in
>> the school of Barbara Woodhouse. Probably be reported to the RSPCA nowadays.
Compulsive training like that works, and quickly, but its lazy and produces a lacklustre dog lacking in initiative joy and spirit.
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>> Compulsive training like that works, and quickly, but its lazy and produces a lacklustre dog
>> lacking in initiative joy and spirit.
I'll dispute that. The last two dogs I had could never be described as 'lacking in initiative joy and spirit'. In fact the last one had to be walked on a lead for the last of her days as she had a heart condition that caused her brain to 'switch off' and she'd drop in mid stride like she'd been shot.
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You cant dispute that, you have no idea how much better your dog would have been had it been trained in a different way, because you didn't and it wasn't.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 21 Sep 20 at 13:28
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>Now, I have a theory that these people who are unnecessarily restraining their dogs and not >allowing them to socialise ( under supervision ) are doing them more of a disservice than a >favour.
>What's your view?
You are fundamentally correct, its all down to poor socialisation and inconsistent training or boundaries as a young pup. The mum will put some boundary training into the pup, the pack will socialise, and owners unravel the whole thing as soon as the pup gets home. You cant blame the owners, they know no better, and it is a process, work that needs to be put in and done correctly.
Like yours, my dog is off lead most of the time. She has earned the right to mooch about sniff and forage, in short be a dog, because I know she will stay, recall, or walk to heel on command 99% of the time when I need her to, mainly to keep her safe.
I could weep with joy when you get the training to the point of controlling prey drive. She'll see a rabbit or scent a grouse, and give me a quick glance for permission to go. Sometimes I let her away after it, knowing I can call her back in the middle of hot pursuit or hunt. Her life as, and ability to be, a dog is immeasurably improved by her training.
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Farm next to our olde quintessential Cornish country cottidge bin knocking out hybrids all Covid long for £2k.
Their (his) daddy (another farmer!) reckons he's made £100k in 12 months from breeding gods.
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Had to euthanize my 14 year old Working Cocker on Wednesday. I am bereft. I knew the end was near but he appears to have had a stroke on Tuesday night. His spirit had broken in the last few days. Apart from when I was away, i've never really been separated from him. We've been through some pretty dark times together. I keep looking or listening out for him. He was a character, he had a few "bites" one a very senior Police Officer...One knows that this is on the cards of course, the last few weeks he had become increasingly "not himself". Swear blind I'll never get another. We have the Springer of course, but it's really strange at the moment.
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Sorry to hear that RP, it's never good. I guess I just try to remember that, for a dog, any life that gets into double figures is not a bad innings, and if he was a happy dog, and a good companion to you, then it was a good wee life.
My "best mate" is nearly ten now, still lively enough but he was very poorly with pancreatitis earlier this year and now has to be on a fairly strict diet. Some days he shows his age, but on others he's still like a pup. I'll take it badly when his time comes, one of the best dogs I've ever had in truth.
Actually, he's just wandered in to my office right now, I expect he's thinking it must be getting close to his lunchtime walk... ;-)
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Milo has bin gorn 5 years now - we still think about him on a regular basis. We got Cody the Engerlish Ponter before he went, then got Beau the Beauceron shortly afterwards.
Milo was ready to go - hind legs went, incontinent. He was 15 which is a good age for a Rhodesian Backridge.
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>>Had to euthanize my 14 year old Working Cocker on Wednesday.
Had to do that with my aged Springer. Found her walking in circles in the garden, completely out of it. The vet made it easy - she's had enough, hasn't she, he said at a very cursory look (old school). Do dogs get Alzheimers?
She grew up with my daughters who were distraught.
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Mrs O'Reliant had her horse put down last week, a Welsh Cob she bought twenty years ago at age eight. She's been distraught ever since.
It isn't pleasant when you have to take the decision with an animal, but any dog owner will know that facing it one day will be inevitable. At least we can take comfort that they have a better ending than most humans, who are left to slowly rot to death in discomfort and misery.
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>> Do dogs get Alzheimers?
Yup, a form of. Just as distressing as the human variety.
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>> Had to euthanize my 14 year old Working Cocker on Wednesday. I am bereft.
You have my sympathies, been there, - it's tough.
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RP, so very sorry to hear this.
Until we got our dog I never realised what a large part it would play in our lives.
My thoughts are with you.
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There was an "event" in August Bank Holiday 2019 - he seemed to have overheated and was "ill" overnight - he seemed ok the next day, but I noticed a decline in his cognitive behaviour, he'd often walk the wrong way or get "lost" on walks - his eyesight was failing no doubt. It was a steady decline. My sense of loss is very big, but I remember him as a remarkably astute dog, with superb athletic abilities; best remembered that way I guess - all very sad, I have bouts of "loss" but comfort myself that he's not in any pain or distress any more. He meant an awful lot to me and his welfare was always primary in my mind. We're off on holiday tomorrow and it will be very odd with only one dog in tow. Life goes on and is full of little adjustments now.
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Just back from the vets.
Poppy our cherished 9 year old Lhasa Apso had a mini stroke this evening.
She was terrified at the fireworks and went to hide. Then came looking for us but dragging her left side as her legs weren't working and her face was contorted.
Mad rush to the vets some 8 miles away who confirmed a stroke on the right side of her brain which has affected her ability to sense and see on her left side.
She did perk up at the vets after being given some jabs and thankfully is now home and slowly searching the house for hidden treats, but is strangely silent. She has rolled on to her back for a tummy tickle.
Apparently the next week or so will be telling.
2020 just keeps on giving.
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I'm so sorry. That would tear my heart out.
Here's hoping for the best for her.
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Thanks Mark.
She is a character. Runt of the litter and ferociously brave. Has a nice deep bark unlike most small dogs.
Stood firm between Mrs Z and an advancing pair of Rottweilers recently - the Rottweilers would do no harm they were so well trained and stopped, turned, sat, etc on one word commands, but Poppy didn't know that and stood her ground.
The welcome one gets from her when arriving home and throughout the day demands for cuddles or tummy tickles makes her many faults worth it.
I truly hope she won't deteriorate beyond help. The vet was very keen to give her every chance and thinks she may be OK after a week of rest and wouldn't do the dreaded unless necessary, but did warn us that this coming week will be vital and there is only so much she can do.
It is heart-breaking.
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All we can do for our pets is make their lives better because we're in them than they would have been if we were not.
And loving them is part of that .
But it is heartbreaking.
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An awful wrench when they go. Awful when they're ill.
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Its a fact of pet life we nurse them along well past their natural sell by date.
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>> Its a fact of pet life we nurse them along well past their natural sell
>> by date.
>>
Yes I know someone who has spent over £3,000 on tests, drugs vet bills etc on her 17 yer old cat. There are several three legged dogs around here I see hobbling about, one I see has a sort of trolley to support its rear end. I also see dogs being wheeled around in buggies, presumably unable to walk.
Its all a bit weird. I just don't understand it.
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Poppy is up and about and on all fours this morning albeit a bit slow (vision impaired perhaps).
She is a lot quieter though, we normally get huffs, puffs and several different “chats” from her and the odd swearing just like Mutley from the Whacky Races when she doesn’t get her way.
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>>her 17 yer old cat.
>> Its all a bit weird. I just don't understand it.
And you never will until you have lived with the pet for 17 years
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When I was a kid, pets were seen as disposable items. If your cat disappeared, you just went and got another from a litter of new kittens that the owner was glad to give away. Dogs were mongrels, and also given away freely.
If you had to go to a vet, the question was always "is the treatment more than the cost of having it put down?"
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>> the question was always "is the treatment
>> more than the cost of having it put down?"
Poppy is part of the family. She gives in ways we can’t quantify but we get an awful lot of pleasure having her here.
I have mentioned before, in 2010 Mrs Z was very ill, last rights time. She pulled through but wasn’t making much progress getting on with her life, always feeling totally drained.
The consultant suggested getting a small dog to get her out of the house and give her something to have to care about. Poppy came along and transformed Mrs Z. Not quite overnight but having to get up and take her for walks and care for the fluff ball really helped.
Poppy doesn’t know she has helped but she does know she is part of the family and is loved, which at the end of the day is what’s important.
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There is a big difference between doing everything possible to help them recover or continue for the animal's benefit and doing everything to keep them alive inappropriately for one's own convenience.
I have no doubt that Zippy will do the right thing, as would most of us.
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>> There is a big difference between doing everything possible to help them recover or continue
>> for the animal's benefit and doing everything to keep them alive inappropriately for one's own
>> convenience.
>>
>> I have no doubt that Zippy will do the right thing, as would most of
>> us.
>>
>>
>>
Absolutely. The vet made it clear that she is not at that stage yet and the vet won’t put a healthy / happy animal down.
Poppy isn’t herself today, but she is mischievous and active. I went out for a short socially distanced coffee with a mate for lunch today and was met at the door by Poppy who spent a good few minutes smelling where I had been which is a good sign.
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Well actually we have had four cats one of which was 18 when it died. It seems to me wrong to subject a cat to months of test, having pills pushed down its throat and overnight stays at the vets and pet hospitals. Cats do not enjoy stress and much prefer to be left alone. We have to try and think objectively as to why we are subjecting an animal to stress and perhaps pain. Is it really for the animals benefit or is it our our own because we cannot bear to be parted from it?
Personally I think the veterinary industry has a lot to answer for. Always offering another treatment, another test, an operation or two when the end is clearly inevitable. A very lucrative business
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>> Personally I think the veterinary industry has a lot to answer for. Always offering another
>> treatment, another test, an operation or two when the end is clearly inevitable. A very
>> lucrative business
My Lab was run over at 2 years of age. Its front leg was crushed and rolled under one of the wheels of the car. The wrist was smashed, the lower leg was degloved (all the skin pulled off)
£5000* of surgery and skin grafts saved the leg, it had 12 years more active and happy life.
Good value for money from the vet
(* £8700 in todays money)
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>>my lab...
Active and happy life...
Says it all and I’m sure it was worth every penny!
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Thread Revival The Puppy.
Lanlwyd Garwen, aka Nessa.
Picked her up at 8.5 weeks just outside Welshpool, now 13 weeks. Fantastic bitch, Travels well, slept through the night from day 1, fully house trained in two weeks, eats well with firm poo, friendly, confident.
We have a good recall, what's starting to look like a good retrieve, excellent send away, a good sit, downs are a struggle tho. With the arrival of lockdown II, socialisation has been harder than it could have been, ditto formal training but we have our first one to one with our trainer this week.
In short she is a cracker, worth every cent of her slightly inflated price.
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Thanks for telling us what's occurring ! Sounds a lovely dog :-)
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We fell lucky with our last Retriever Millie. She was our second. Someone had donated her to the Police. For what reason I'm not sure, maybe didn't suit their lifestyle.
Anyway she was assessed for a role as drugs dog but just didn't do drugs so was free to a good home.
We'd been on a North Sea Ferries 'Dutch Dash" weekend and came home. The phone was ringing and Mrs FC answered it. "Yes bring her round". She'd omitted to tell me of the plan. Anyway the door was opened Millie dashed in did 2 circuits of the living room round the kids, dumped on the carpet and remained with us for the rest of her years.
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The only difficulty has been managing relations between the incumbent and the newcomer.
Evie is a lovely dog, but very very intolerant of puppies, with a short temper and not at all adverse to escalating things quickly. 50% of the time I have let Evie put pup in her place, and 50% of the time I have done it to show I have her back. Pup, bless her, reads dog warnings really well and acts appropriately and quickly, but is not shy in coming back for more, once deciding she would challenge big dog. This would not be a good idea!
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I can't help but feel sorry for Evie. She's used to being *the* dog and the centre of your focus.
Now she's got a little upstart upsetting the balance.
I know, I know, anthropomorphism, but still....
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>> I know, I know, anthropomorphism, but still....
Tis true that humans try to understand dogs by attributing human characteristics to their behaviour, mostly to the detriment of both, humans chatter incessantly to dogs who in turn just hear white noise frustrating both dog and human.
However a form of canine jealousy actually exists, but is more akin to the human "fear of missing out" - albeit in a more feral "basic needs" form.
Take your dog out for a walk, then make a fuss of another - Its likely your dog will either a: Transfer attention to the owner of the other dog in an obviously exhibitionist form or b: intervene by blocking the other dog from you, or c : exhibit some attention seeking behaviour.
Is that Jealousy or Ownership?, Getting its place in the pecking order known before the interloper joins the pack?
Evie and nessa had a fantastic example. New pup was getting a string of visitors all day, all making a fuss of her, people who normally fawn over Evie.
I could see* Evie getting more and more frustrated by her body language, till near the end of the day pup passed her by, at a respectable distance, and Evie just lunged at her with no provocation**. Pup is quick and was out of it just in time.
* Watching her just to check, ** but Didnt see that coming at that time.
When I do some training with Evie, is she far more keen and attentive than she used to be pre pup? you bet your boots she is, Is this an attempt to impress me? anthropomorphism? who knows but it is very real and probably part of her need to maintain pack order.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 18 Nov 20 at 13:43
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>>downs are a struggle tho.
Strange, my lab is the same, can do most of the others but I really struggle to get him to lie on his front. Did all the recommended training with treats, arching your hand right under the chest to make it sloop back but really didn't get the hang of it!
Easy to get him to lie on his back, just say "tummy tickles" and the four legs are in the air straight away!
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@Zero, is there a reason why you favour bitches over dogs? Not expressing an opinion here, at all, just that habitually, all my parents dogs were dogs, and I've, for no reason at all, continued that, sort of, tradition. ,
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In my chosen types of dogs, specially pedigree, the dogs tend to be a bit thick, sex and food crazed. The bitches are more intelligent, more sparky and driven.
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>> >>downs are a struggle tho.
>>
>> Strange, my lab is the same, can do most of the others but I really
>> struggle to get him to lie on his front.
I am after a particular move, from sit /stand to down and back, called a "cantilever" and it needs to be snappy.
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Cantilever example www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMt7yaRZvAg&ab The paws need to be nailed to the floor
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Thats the one!
Was told to basically stand in front and bring the treat from nose to floor at its front paws in one sort of movement in the hope the dog would do as you described.
Hasn't worked!
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My dog just kind of likes walks and fetching sticks. He'll stop, sit, return etc on command, but that's about it. I'm ok with that.
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>> My dog just kind of likes walks and fetching sticks. He'll stop, sit, return etc
>> on command, but that's about it. I'm ok with that.
For a safe and happy dog relationship you only need a 100% reliable recall, stop or a sit/down. The dog can then just be a dog and you can keep it out of trouble.
Oh and they need to know how to chill under a pub table.
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Yeah, he has had a bit of practice at that too! All in the cause of dog training of course...
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>For a safe and happy dog relationship you only need a 100% reliable recall, stop or a sit/down. >The dog can then just be a dog and you can keep it out of trouble.
>
>Oh and they need to know how to chill under a pub table.
Absolutely agree.
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>>
>> Oh and they need to know how to chill under a pub table.
>>
I once spent most of an evening in the Three Shires Head in Langdale without knowing that there was a Border Collie under the settle I was on, until the guy next to me got up to leave, and it followed him.
(and it wasn't the beer that did it)
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Either would do it I suppose.
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>> Cauliflower?
But please no sprouts. Have you ever had to do a long car journey with a dog fed sprouts by a relative who thought it would be funny?
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With the dog in a stand in front of you, have a handful of food in your fist, stick it under the dogs nose, and push your fist away from you and down in a smooth arc. If the dogs nose is stuck to your fist it has to go backwards and down in the same smooth way your hand goes.
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Working on that just now, not very successful but will persevere. Assume 18 month old dogs can still learn something new!! Actually think he may have an issue with a back leg - anytime we play "tummy tickles" he always circles in the one direction before rolling onto his back, can't seem to do it in the other direction!
On a different note, what is the best way to "reprimand" a dog - mine is usually off lead but occasionally this means he can find discarded food, bread etc . Once he gets some he wont come back till he has scoffed it.
How do I reprimand him and let him know that he is being reprimanded for eating an not coming back? I once read that dog's have no sense of time so need to act there and then otherwise its meaningless?
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I am clearly no expert, but I was always very aware that my dogs might now know the difference between coming back and coming back late.
So I used to congratulate them on coming back and get pssed if only I had to go to them. however long it took.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 24 Nov 20 at 18:53
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>> On a different note, what is the best way to "reprimand" a dog - mine
>> is usually off lead but occasionally this means he can find discarded food, bread etc
>> . Once he gets some he wont come back till he has scoffed it.
>>
>> How do I reprimand him and let him know that he is being reprimanded for
>> eating an not coming back? I once read that dog's have no sense of time
>> so need to act there and then otherwise its meaningless?
I seem to have missed a response to that.
Two questions with two distinct answers.
Doing wrong, you can only act at the time and the place where the dog does the bad deed. Anywhere else, by yards or seconds and the dog has no idea what its being corrected for. Get the time wrong and the dog could think its being punished for coming back.
Doing right, similar but different method. You mark the good behaviour precisely at the place moment it happens, with a clicker, noise, word (the same one every time) but as long as the dog knows it will get a reward for the marker, the actual reward can be some time afterwards.
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>>Two questions with two distinct answers.
Cheers, quite topical as he did it again this morning. Into the bushes and started munching on something and refused to return. So in this case I should basically go to him (albeit he will run away) but go to the "site" of the bad behaviour and reprimand him from there?
He does undersand "bad", as soon as it is said with an accompanying tone, the tail tucks right under the back legs and they in turn are crouched down.
I have never had, or tried the clicker. Often thought about it but never followed it through.
My other issue is I have the only labrador known to man that is a very fussy eater!! Struggling to achieve 27kg, more often or not hovering about the 26kg mark. Very thin around the rear hips.
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>> Cheers, quite topical as he did it again this morning. Into the bushes and started
>> munching on something and refused to return. So in this case I should basically go
>> to him (albeit he will run away) but go to the "site" of the bad
>> behaviour and reprimand him from there?
.*********
Edit dunno what got bleeped there. - Essentially I said dont try and scold or correct a dog out of bad recall, you can never get the time and place right.
SO, you need to work on positive recall. Start at short distances in a safe space, like your garden. If he is out there, to 5 yards away from him, call his name, give him a treat. Do that again and again in various locations, increasing distance, but EVERY time he must get a treat, if you dont have any, dont try it you would only set yourself up to fail.
There is one reason and one reason only a dog wont recall, and thats because what its doing is more interesting or rewarding than you. My older dog we recall from prey drive - ie chasing a rabbit, I can call her off the chase. The pup? at 4 months the recall is pretty good, not prey drive good - yet.
>> I have never had, or tried the clicker. Often thought about it but never followed
>> it through.
you dont need a device, a word will do, say "click" or "good". Say the word, treat the dog, and it soon relates word to treat, its basic Pavlovs dog.
>> My other issue is I have the only labrador known to man that is a
>> very fussy eater!! Struggling to achieve 27kg, more often or not hovering about the 26kg
>> mark. Very thin around the rear hips.
Never be afraid to have a dog on the low end of the scale. as low on the breed percentile as you can keep it. Your dog will thank you for it in later years, far less chance of the back end collapsing later.
If your dog is not food or treat driven when training the reward can be a tuggy, or toy.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 8 Jan 21 at 23:44
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I trained my dogs with cat biscuits as treats. They're tiny, so less likely to make the dog fat.
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Since recovering, Poppy has been pretty much herself, which is a good thing.
There are a couple of odd changes in behaviour though...
1. She hates my feet, especially if I wiggle my toes. She will growl at me and if I persist or move my feet around they are attacked. She doesn't bite - it's a bit like the first few false alarms in the jaws movie.
2. If I pick up the remote and go to pass it to another member of the family, especially if they are on another sofa then it's like WW3 has been declared and she growls, barks and scolds me, tail wagging furiously. Again not actually attacked. Anyone else can handle the remote and pass it around. Just me that's not allowed. Perhaps she's worried that if I pass it to someone in a throwing motion it's going to hit her.
3. If I go to pick up anything off the floor its the same.
All of these traits are only evident after dark, even with the lights on.
Yet, when everyone else has gone to bed, she will come and sit with me and won't move until I close my laptop and head off for bed.
It's all bluster and usually ends up with a bit of swearing - just like Muttley in the Wacky Races!
All I can think is that her eyesight has been compromised and she isn't seeing objects properly and gets spooked by movement.
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 7 Jan 21 at 00:44
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>If I pick up the remote... it's like WW3 has been declared and she growls, barks
>and scolds me..
My missus does that.
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>>Since recovering
Recovering? Did I miss a post? What happened to her?
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>> >>Since recovering
>>
>> Recovering? Did I miss a post? What happened to her?
>>
She had a mild stroke on 31st October 2020 (above). Never drove to the vets so quickly.
She did mend quickly but this strange behaviour started fairly promptly afterwards. Thank goodness for good (expensive) pet insurance.
A few observations:
She has always been vocal. It's the breed, but even more so now. Anything, absolutely anything out of place and she barks, which means packing up the Xmas decorations has been a pain.
She has learnt a "Paddington" stare. It's very funny, along with some varying tones asking for treats.
She now howls along with the smoke alarm when I cook.
Her trick repertoire, very limited as it was, is now preformed in full for any treat, even if you just asked for a paw or down.
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 7 Jan 21 at 02:29
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A stroke in dogs, just like in humans, can change personality and eyesight, hearing can be one thing that goes. Its possible with the change of eyesight she is more sensitive to the ir emitted from the remote, Having a stroke is also very frightening. I guess she is getting on in years, its also possible doggie Alzheimer is at play.
Routine is key for dogs with issues. stuff changing is unsettling.
The paddington (or pressure) stare is common place in some dog breeds.
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I was told by a vet that dogs can't have strokes, as we know them.
One elderly dog I had, suddenly lost control of her hind legs. I thought that was a stroke. She previously suffered from 'switch off', where she would be running along and suddenly drop like a stone and be completely unresponsive, apart from breathing, for a minute of two. Frightened me to death when it first started happening.
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Dogs have strokes just like we do, although they inevitably are more serious and debilitating leading to death in more cases. they also have epilepsy which manifests itself in in all the ways we can. Your dog probably had "absence seizures"
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>>One elderly dog I had, suddenly lost control of her hind legs. I thought that was a stroke.
Thats what happened to my last lab at only 7 years old. Missus came in the front door and the dog was on a heap on the floor, couldnt stand. Rushed to vet, then animal hospital and transpired had suffered a spinal stroke.
Had to sadly put him to sleep, I am still traumatised by that sight.
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>> The Paddington (or pressure) stare is common place in some dog breeds.
>>
She's got it off to an fine art and it's hilarious, which is clearly the wrong reaction on my part because when I start to chuckle I get an audible huff from her.
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>>She now howls along with the smoke alarm when I cook.
That conjures up a domestic scenario that would take paragraphs to describe fully.
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>> >>She now howls along with the smoke alarm when I cook.
>>
>> That conjures up a domestic scenario that would take paragraphs to describe fully.
>>
Unfortunately it's as simple as; I am an dreadful cook. I can burn water.
Poppy on the other had is hilarious. She will purposely sit under the smoke alarm in anticipation and howwwwlllll along with it when it goes off.
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>> She now howls along with the smoke alarm when I cook.
Your neighbours are so lucky.
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The dog next door is like the hound of the sodding Baskervilles. Fortunately it only sets up its keening once a day, around bedtime.
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>>She had a mild stroke on 31st October 2020 (above).
Of course she did, sorry. I had a moment of braindeadness..
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Much the same for Alfie my much missed Working Cocker who had to be euthanised in September. His behaviour changed a couple of years ago, when he'd bark and growl quite aggressively at us when we came in after dark. This was followed more recently of poohing in the house, which he had never done before and was very routine orientated around toileting. He stopped dead when we were likely to go for a walk after dark, as he aged his walks were becoming more and more limited, when off lead he seemed to get lost in very familiar places. I'm convinced he was suffering from some degenerative brain disease, his hind legs had gone and he would regularly fall over. The end came when it became obvious he'd had some sort of event overnight. My wife took him to the vet, I couldn't face it. I miss him every day but feel we made the right choice. He had a great life with us despite many changes in lifestyle and locations.
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That resonates very close to me. Too close actually. Dogs eh.
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Me too. Had a Springer that grew up with my daughters (they learned to walk by pulling themselves up with their fingers in her ear hair). Not a malicious bone in her body. The butcher would turn up and giving her a massive bone every now and then which would last her all of half-an-hour and I'd find the bone splinters with the mower. She must've had tremendous power in her jaws.
One morning, found her walking in circles, totally out of it (she was 15 or 16). Took her to vet, who made it very easy by saying " she's had enough". Daughters rang from school, I couldn't lie, they hated me for ages as she was like a sister to them.
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The worse thing about owning a dog is the saying Goodbye.
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>> The worse thing about owning a dog is the saying Goodbye.
It's not so much the saying goodbye, as the absolute certainty that one day you will have to do so.
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>> >> The worse thing about owning a dog is the saying Goodbye.
>>
>> It's not so much the saying goodbye, as the absolute certainty that one day you
>> will have to do so.
Actually, knowing that means you can plan for it. A premature end however, is tough. There is all that good stuff you planned to cram in......
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>> Actually, knowing that means you can plan for it. A premature end however, is tough.
>> There is all that good stuff you planned to cram in......
Even knowing it's coming, it's hard not to be selfish and drag things out just for more time.
We lost our collie-lab x at 16 in 2018, and it hit us all like a train.
He'd been going downhill for a while, with dental issues (14 teeth out in 2017, and problems developing with the rest) , and generally seeming to lose interest in doing much apart from eating and sleeping. There was also senility clearly creeping in. He started to periodically get up and walk half way across the room, then stop, clearly confused about where he was going. Occasionally he'd walk in circles, or walk backwards. He also stopped wanting anything to do with my wife or my eldest daughter. He'd tolerate me, and he'd do absolutely anything for my youngest daughter, who he had always had a strong bond with, but would move away from my wife and eldest if they approached him.
We started having the discussion about the inevitable, but the decision was forced a day or two later, when he disappeared. We couldn't find him anywhere. After tearing the house apart, and going out and checking the street multiple times, my daughter found him in the cupboard under the stairs where he'd climbed over all the stuff and hidden himself right at the back. We gently got him out, but he just looked sad and uncomfortable.
We took him to the vet the next day who examined him and confirmed his teeth were causing him pain, and could be dealt with, but due to his age, there was a good chance he wouldn't pull through the operation. Even then, it wouldn't deal with the senility that was clearly advancing. The vet said that they suspected we knew deep down what the right thing to do was. So we did it there and then. I held him while he fell asleep, and I bawled like a baby for 2 hours. And most of the next day, made much harder by our cockapoo pacing between the dog bed and my desk for several hours, whimpering. They often snoozed the evenings away by the radiator, and she missed him as much as we did.
We still have the cockapoo, and a working cocker spaniel who is brainless and brilliant in equal measure. I dread that time coming, so it's about making the most of now.
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