Just a heads up to all the expats in Europe that look in here.
My employer is taking the view that there will be no “passporting” arrangements for banking services from 1st January and are in the process of writing to thousands of customers to remove banking facilities and are in some circumstances recalling loans and mortgages.
Had a few clients on the phone this AM who own UK businesses but live in Europe and are not happy.
I don’t deal with retail banking so am not up to speed but understand some correspondence is going to the UK addresses and may not be seen in time if mail is not forwarded.
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I remember we got the heads up at work about this several months ago. With a warning for those of us that work overseas to change to one of the banks that would keep British sterling accounts open for those overseas.
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It is very short-sighted of these banks.
UK citizens with UK income that they want paying into a UK bank account. Many of these people still have strong family links to the UK and may be overseas for reasons other than the sun is sunnier or they are hiding from the tax man.
Probably better off banking with an overseas bank in the UK!
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>> It is very short-sighted of these banks.
Its not at all short sighted, its a cold hard financial & commercial choice. Personal banks accounts make no profit for the bank, and the end of passporting makes it a cost.
>> UK citizens with UK income that they want paying into a UK bank account. Many
>> of these people still have strong family links to the UK and may be overseas
>> for reasons other than the sun is sunnier or they are hiding from the tax
>> man.
If they have strong family links to the UK they would be in the UK. Most of them will be back anyway when they realise what effect Brexit has on them. Strangely most of them voted for it.
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>> It is very short-sighted of these banks.
>>
It's not short-sightedness, it's the law. Without the effective licence to operate in specific territories the bank would be operating illegally and each country requires a separate licence and the process costs a fortune.
About 15 years ago, whilst in the EU, my employer tried to get a specialist licence for Italy - for a derivate of banking. The legal fees alone were over £1m!
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 15 Dec 20 at 13:28
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This sort of stuff has been cropping up in the personal finance pages of the papers since at least the second quarter of this year. Affects ex-pats in EU and also some EU folks over here.
As others point out action is not a matter of choice; it's another consequence of the 'easiest deal ever'.
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I'm sure must would be sorted by now, not something anyone would leave until lastminute.com.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 16 Dec 20 at 02:56
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There are a couple of banks still continuing, I think we were told nationwide and Lloyd's are continuing for those overseas.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 16 Dec 20 at 02:56
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The other question that arises is for second home owners who need an overseas bank account to pay all the costs of owning a foreign property. Not practical to make payments individually for monthly standing orders or how to arrange direct debits for foreign utility companies!
Will reciprocity occur?
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It is not only Bank accounts, foreign resident holders of UK credit cards are having these withdrawn. Ie they are not allowing the use of a foreign address for the account holder.
People with family connections are using family addresses in the UK.
I suppose American Express may benefit, but many businesses will not accept AE because of the costs.
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>> It is not only Bank accounts, foreign resident holders of UK credit cards are having
>> these withdrawn. Ie they are not allowing the use of a foreign address for the
>> account holder.
>>
>> People with family connections are using family addresses in the UK.
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>> I suppose American Express may benefit, but many businesses will not accept AE because of
>> the costs.
Most business's dont take Amex anyway. Brexit or not.
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>> Most business's dont take Amex anyway. Brexit or not.
>>
Is that still the case? I know it was many year ago, but I have a BA Amex that I use for petrol, in supermarkets, restaurants and hotels and online and have never had an issue.
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More smaller business I'd say, I believe there's a high transaction fee.
I had one years ago, but the fees weren't worth it.
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>>
>> >>
>> >> Most business's dont take Amex anyway. Brexit or not.
>> >>
>>
>> Is that still the case? I know it was many year ago, but I have
>> a BA Amex that I use for petrol, in supermarkets, restaurants and hotels and online
>> and have never had an issue.
Most smallish restaurants or pubs won't touch it.
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>> Most smallish restaurants or pubs won't touch it.
It must have been around twenty years ago that I had one, and as far as I remember it was only filling stations, supermarkets and other large stores that would accept it.
Possibly one could use it nowadays to pay council tax and other utility bills, but I don't know.
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>> The other question that arises is for second home owners who need an overseas bank
>> account to pay all the costs of owning a foreign property.
If you've got a second home then you also have the address.
The new rules is not that you may not have a foreign bank account it is that you may not use a foreign address. Always been the case for UK Expats outside the EU.
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Maybe I was not clear - you misunderstood.
Reciprocity - I use a foreign account to pay costs from, but the foreign bank corresponds with my UK address. It recognises me as a foreigner as it sends me multi language documents re foreign (ie UK)tax requirements.
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I did not misunderstand. I repeat, the change is simply that one may not use an address foreign to the country in which the account is held. However, given that one has a property in that country, there should be no issue.
One uses one's local, in-country address, limits all hardcopy correspondence going to that address as far as possible, and conducts one's affairs electronically. One deals with tax liabilities in all concerned countries oneself.
This is a new problem for those whose international dealings have previously been limited to the EU. For the rest of us it's same ole, same ole.
It's hardly a biggie.
And I guess reciprocity does apply. Nobody can do it. Equally.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 15 Dec 20 at 17:49
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OK got it.
The problem is then that written statements go to an address that is not occupied for long (winter) periods.
I tried electronic access to this bank a few years ago but gave up as it was unreliable - although i guess that it is probably better nowadays - although it probably will not work on a phone with a 'foreign' number. Welcome to the dark ages. F Brexit!
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Wed 16 Dec 20 at 09:40
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Can't then send you an electronic bill or a photo of the bill on WhatsApp, by email etc?
Our of curiosity, what country is the house in?
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Just you try to get a French bank to do something outside the box!
I will get my long suffering 80 year old french neighbours to sort and empty the post box and photo the statement. They already double up as security.
If you have never lived in france you would be surprised at how much 'free' non solicited rubbish appears in your post box - after 6 weeks the box can be jammed full with supermarket special offers.
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I mean the people sending the bill. Aren't electricity bills etc online in France?
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It is not paying the bills that is an issue - all done by direct debit thro the Bank account. It is tracking the Bank Account.
Most utility Bills and local Taxes are available on line - however do not discount the benefits having paper copies in a country that delights in a paper based bureaucracy! Getting difficult things done in a second language is never straightforward.
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Tracking the bank account
You mean logging in and looking at the when/if the money has gone out?
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>> Just you try to get a French bank to do something outside the box!
Pondering this, with all or most financial institutions providing apps for or allowing control of your accounts online or via apps, would it no be possible to run, say, a French bank account and credit cards online from the UK?
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to run, say, a French bank account and credit cards online from the UK
yes that is what I will do - but note my previous comments on french paper based bureaucracy.
Not sure whether phone based apps will run on a phone with a foreign number? Pretty sure that my Barclays phone app is only good for +44 number. A PC (with vpn?) would probably not be a problem.
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You can get a vpn for your phone.
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They use the phone number for SMS notifications and security!
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Get a PAYG French sim. As long as its only turned on for the times you use it for authentication, it might not fail foul of the 90 day abroad rule. (The phone companies ( in the UK anyway) have said they will stick to no roaming charges)
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I'm afraid I wouldn't know if a VPN would effect the security side of it. Someone on here will know though.
Only thing I can think of is a french sim card, I know people who travel to the US used a US sim when in the US and it made things a lot easier.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 16 Dec 20 at 11:35
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I use a VPN on my home PC (and occasionally on other devices) more as as security than a location measure. I use paid-for NordVPN who have hundreds of servers, and unless you explicitly request a particular country or purpose server you are allocated to one automatically in your country for load balancing.
Problems can arise as a result of email spammers having used them sane servers in the past. The NordVPN network sub address ranges must be known by some organisations as they block them, therefore I can't reach their sites.
An example is not being able to click through from the Shopping result on a Google search to an item as the Google ad servers (doubleclick IIRC). I can turn off VPN to get through this and turn it on again once I reach the site but it sort of defeats the object, especially as in that instance they are probably planting something on my PC.
And currently I am banned from a renewable energy forum as my address appears to them as a spammer. (It'd just be a blanket ban for, for instance, 123.456.123.* so anything form particular address ranges).
People have told me my mail sometimes goes into their Junk box which I assume is when I've sent it while VPN is active so the originating IP appears in the header.
So a VPN may solve the issue but bring a whole load more!
(I do have OpenVPN server running on a Raspberry Pi for a private VPN but it ends up throttling the connection somewhat. If I were bothered about it then something like that may be the way forward for me)
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I guess the starting comment is that I know nothing about the workings and habits of French banks.
For me, I have no hardcopy communication from the bank(s) at all. It is all electronic though each bank account requires an in-country mailing address.
I have no issue logging into electronic banking from any country to any country. I do not use a VPN. (well, I do but for other reasons and inconsistently).
You can definitely use Pinsentry abroad. I also have phone numbers foreign to the country that the account is in and I receive security SMS and the like without issue.
Life only ever becomes a pain on the very rare occasions a signature is required. Also, getting replacement cards can be an issue. They will send them anywhere, but sometimes they take persuading.
That said, F. Brexit indeed.
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We’re closing expat bank accounts - sooty123
