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Passed a closed off Tesco a filling station that had a sign up stating: No diesel.
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It's pretty crazy - people making a big thing out of filling up before a price rise.
Many of them won't have an empty tank. The amount saved is trivial - typically they may save no more than 5p a litre (for now) and if they put 30 litres in that's £1.50.
My weekly shopping in Sainsbury's yesterday for the two of us came to £148.02. A pack of arrowroot biscuits was £1.55.
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Just bought a pallet load of toilet rolls. Anyone interested?
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Recent (non-panic) buying.
13 tins of KTC chili beans reduced to 20p down from 65p.
Some tins of plum tomatoes, ditto. slight dents in cans.
Asda do reuctions on anything slightly damaged.
4 x 1 kilo Wagyu topside roasts @ 30% off the other week in Aldi. in freezer//
As is said in another large supermarket.. Every little helps..
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Just bought 4 circular saw blades, am I horder? :)
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I forgot to add. 4 extra special aberdeen angus steaks 30% off. Ate 1 last night and 1 tonight. others in freezer.
Tonight with Pommes dauphinoise, brocoli and a vine tomato. ( Dijon mustard bought in France)
2021 Horizon Shiraz cabernet.
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You are when you haven't got a circular saw :)
I was once wooed by a set of 1m long masonry bits. Then sensibility kicked in.
"When a I actually going to drill that far through any masonry"
Temptation overcome.
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>> Just bought a pallet load of toilet rolls. Anyone interested?
>>
I might be if they start launching longer-range missiles ;-)
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>> Many of them won't have an empty tank. The amount saved is trivial - typically
>> they may save no more than 5p a litre (for now) and if they put
>> 30 litres in that's £1.50.
Yeahbut, it's not about saving money. It's about having fuel in your tank when the filling stations have run out.
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Yeahbut, it's not about saving money. It's about having fuel in your tank when the filling stations have run out.
As it was with Covid a few years back.
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It was tanker driver strikes that caused me a problem - I had my TDI then so just got by, might not be as easy with the GTI but it's not that bad, price won't be the issue just supply.
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I think the human nature is that people want to have a link to events. So someone goes out and fills their tank even though they didn't need it as this then gives them the ammunition to post on their social media or in conversations to say that they are now affected and this is how. It then gives them a link to it.
Similar to the ones on FB pages that feel the need to add a comment to a post like "I saw that and wondered what happened" or the ones (and my wife is bad for this who say things like " did you see that guy from Glasgow who got murdered, well he's my colleagues brother's friend's dog's cousin - it then gives a link for my wife to mention then if it ever comes up in conversation.
Meanwhile for me, last filled up with diesel at beginning of Feb at £1.369 a litre but going away next week so know I need to fill - I should have filled 2 weeks ago and that would still have sufficed for me for next week but instead Petrol Prices app is telling me my local Tesco at 156.9 is the cheapest!
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Diesel where we are in Cumbria has jumped from £1.389/litre at the weekend to £1.529/litre today. Glad I filled up at the weekend!
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lots of profiteering with fuel price increases. Petrol suddenly shot up 6p litre in two local filling stations. I know people who work there and it was already in the tanks…even if it was a new fuel delivery it would still have been bought at the ‘old’ price.
Unless you drive many miles, then it’s no big deal. I see people in my local pub paying £1,50 for a bag of crisps, same for nuts, the extra cost of a full tank of gogo juice.
Glad my Vitara does around 50mpg and I have a free bus pass, although each single journey is only £3, and £5.50 for train to Leeds before free airport Flyer bus to LBA.
Last edited by: legacylad on Fri 6 Mar 26 at 07:40
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I filled up the Korando last saturday on our return from London, so that i could do my occasional Brim to Brim. Filled up the Venga, which doesn't do many miles as the fuel low light was on.
Que sera...
The weather is dry so SWMBO walking to work. Got the bus free into town to get veggies from the "ethnic shop". They have boxes in the shop full of oddments near the sell by date. paid £2 for it and when got home it was all good stuff worth about £12.. every little.
Leek potato and onion soup today
Only current blip is Sister in law is here and no flights back to Amman and onwards to. Baghdad.
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As we were off to Gatwick very early on Sunday in SWMBOs car for our 7 week trip I plugged mine in on Sat late evening, having set an automation to turn the charger on only at times when my elec was cheap or negative, to fill it from about half full. However I forgot to make sure the charger was off, so it filled up to 100% right away, costing me something over £8 which is annoying!!
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Don’t you have a smart tariff and meter then?
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How could I do it without? I'm on Agile which changes cost every 30 mins.
The OHME charger was slowly packing up so I reverted to my original unsmart wall charger, made semi smart by insertion of a Sonoff min switch controllable from phone and Home Assistant.
Home Assistant knows which are the cheapest half hours at any given time, so I just need to tell it how many of them I want, or what my max price per unit is, and it turns it on and off in the cheapest slots.
I do have automations turning stuff off (and on) on a regular basis (e.g. most lights and the TV go off at 1am) in case they've been left on but I can't include the charger as I don't know whether it's scheduled to run or not*.
So the charger was on as I hadn't "manually" turned it off in Home Assistant. However, in typing this I've realised that when a charge sequence starts I know when it is going to end, so I can set a helper to trigger an automation to turn the charger off.
Might sound complex but it isn't really, and it enables (usually) me to use only the cheapest slots for car charging. The MG is a bit lacking in it's comms back to the EVSE and one thing it doesn't report is it's fullness.
* And I've now thought how I know whether it is scheduled so maybe can set up something to turn it off if it isn't scheduled. Never been much of a problem before.
BTW I pay Octopus £100 a month for gas and elec incl car charging but have eaten into my reserves with them by £200 this year so my monthly cost is roughly £120. Which includes my fuel (though I only do about 5k miles pa these days) . My average elec unit cost excl standing charge is still around 16p. No batteries, small amount of solar. My tariffs have been hit fairly hard by WW3 but I've pretty much finished using gas till Nov.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 6 Mar 26 at 10:11
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“Might sound complex but it isn't really,”
I like like to keep things simple. I just tell Octopus when I want the car charged by ( the default is 9.00 am.
Energy prices are what they are. I just go along with paying whatever Octopus says is necessary.
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>> MG is a bit lacking in it's comms back
Have you tried the MG to MQTT image. That's what I use. It is very sluggish, although you can shorten the interval it uses to poll the car with the caveat it might drain your 12V.
it does report charge level and limit though and it also allows you to remotely change charging rate which you can't do on the MG app.
github.com/SAIC-iSmart-API/saic-python-mqtt-gateway
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I did have a SAIC integration and it may well have been that one. Removed it a while back because a) you could only have one device bound at a time and I preferred it on the phone and b) when the OHME was playing up it seemed happier without it.
I'll have another look now I've given up on the OHME.
CGN - you are right, energy is what it is, and my charging usually costs me a small portion of what you usually pay :-)
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 6 Mar 26 at 15:06
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Just checked this is the integration I had, so a different one community.home-assistant.io/t/mg-saic-custom-integration/754590 -difference being the ne i used is a Home Assistant integration the other isn't
EDIT: Looks like maybe I can install it as an add-on...
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 6 Mar 26 at 15:22
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"Charging usually costs me a small portion of what you usually pay"
So how much less than 7p per KwH are you paying to charge your car then? If you drive 500 miles a year and get around 4p per KwH per mile then charging your car at the tarrif rate of 7p per Kwh would ony cost you less than £100 a year anyway. Doesnt seem much scope for saving a significant amount.
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>>Doesnt seem much scope for saving a
>> significant amount.
Incremental gains?
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I can pretty much tell you every half hour my cars were charged in during since 2018, as I have a program which captures daily usage and cost (and is mostly ignored these days except for answering questions like these :-) ).
Based on an assumption that when I'm charging is about the only time I use over 3KwH in 30 minutes.
So over the past 12 months I've used 1499 units at a cost (incl VAT) of 2.834p per unit.
Over 24 months that becomes 3369 units 2.5p
Over 36 months 5152 units 3.38p
48 mths 7420 3.15p
Interestingly (!!) the last 12 months included 75 negative half hour slots where I was paid to charge, totalling £6.13 revenue rather than cost! :-)
Maybe not hugely significant over your 7p in ££s but consistently less than half... !!!
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 6 Mar 26 at 17:45
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I think i'd struggle to tell you much about how much or often we use electricity, either £ or units. It's lumped in with the gas. I read the meters once a month. I think it's a 100 and something a month.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 6 Mar 26 at 20:17
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I'm sure you're not alone Sooty, but as a retired IT techie just making stuff like this happen has been something of a hobby (not quite an obsession, as it may appear LOL!!). Others play bowls, make things from matchsticks, do gardening etc etc. Some even train dogs and spot trains :-)
And energy in particular has become of interest as I have been able to significantly influence my outgoings and greenness without any real effort - that doesn't really need any technical know-how, just an awareness of where it's going and what you can do to manage it a bit. Never had much interest in that till I retired, and then went onto Octopus, and found they had program interfaces to my usage which I could leverage.
Then realised how it fitted into my interest in home automation and so on. And now I know much more than I used to about energy related stuff like under floor heating, the national grid, wind farms, heat pumps, solar panels etc etc. All useless info but just an area I found to be of interest.
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I do find the bigger infrastructure projects interesting, i learnt quite a bit on yt about things happening on the grid, interconnectors to other countries etc. But we can't have a smart meter here, so i don't tend to worry as it costs what it costs.
I think I'd be lost with the IT side of it. I've only really used a computer full time at work in the last couple of years, rest of the time it was just bits and bobs. So it's still a learning curve, I had a go at power bi this week but even with co pilot it was still a bit of mystery and so I gave it up as a bad job.
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Not doing too bad here: 3 bed detached, all electric = 85 knicker for February AND ... we have a heat pump.
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Diesel at £1.49 and £1.43 at the Texaco and Shell garages respectively (which are located within 150 metres of my house). Last week they were both £1.41.
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UNLEADED
134.9p
DIESEL
146.9p
Colchester cheapest
Shell nearby 5p litre more
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I noticed diesel is up about 6p a litre so far, seem some places its up about 20p a litre.
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I last filled up the 2litre RAV4 at the end of November. It's still showing quarter full so I haven't noticed prices. I might fill my jerrycan tomorrow if I go out and top up both the classics as I'm going to need to move the Jowett to get my ladders in place to do a bit more cleaning on the caravan roof. My local is Morrisons, so we'll see how much it costs.
Ted
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In all this.. with apologies where due..
I fill up the cars when needed but if going up the A!2 toward ipswich there is an Esso station there that is a LOT cheaper, so fill up on the way past.
Otherwise, we eat and drink what we want (at home 99% of the time..)
Petrol prices are not really a concern. But we are careful in what we spend.
Sufficent income for all our needs and pay our bills.
I'm not going to be able to spend what we have in the few? years I have left.
If it's WW3.. so what,,
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ORB has it right.
If I was 30, mortgage, kids, average income etc I would be concerned about the economic impacts of middle east war. I do sympathise.
Reality - I am somewhat more than twice as old, no mortgage, kids grown with decent jobs, comfortable pension after working 40 years, some savings, no outlandish expensive habits etc.
If petrol doubles to £2.70 a litre it will cost me £100 per month - annoying but it won't change anything much. If household energy doubles - another £100 per month. Rather more annoying but not a game changer.
Agonising about 5-10p a litre - complete trivia.
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To a degree I think you are missing the point. An increase in energy price for a few weeks is not a problem. What could well turn into a disaster for an already fragile economy is a large increase in energy prices in the long term. The war has every sign of escalating and with an idiot like Trump in charge God knows where it will end.
Those feeling secure now may well be feeling different in a few years time
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>> The war has every sign of escalating and with an idiot like Trump in
>> charge God knows where it will end.
>>
>> Those feeling secure now may well be feeling different in a few years time
>>
Well ORB's sister in law should be more secure in Colchester than Baghdad. Hopefully the war won't spread to Colchester.
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No but the economic effects of the war certainly will will. More taxes, more inflation, lower living standards
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Every cloud has a silver lining.
Resistance to EVs. wind turbines, solar farms and nuclear will melt away when folk start to realise they don't stop working or double in price when a war breaks our somewhere.
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>> Every cloud has a silver lining.
>>
>> Resistance to EVs. wind turbines, solar farms and nuclear will melt away when folk start
>> to realise they don't stop working or double in price when a war breaks our
>> somewhere.
Hmm? Overcast and no wind here today.
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>> Hmm? Overcast and no wind here today.
Gridwatch says wind and solar covering a tad short of 20% of demand right now.
Wind more than nuclear.
French interconnector more than either wind or nuclear.
Mostly gas though - 40%+.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 8 Mar 26 at 13:34
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>> Resistance to EVs. wind turbines, solar farms and nuclear will melt away when folk start
>> to realise they don't stop working or double in price when a war breaks our
>> somewhere.
Seems to me a well co-ordinated swarm of precisely directed small cheap suicide drones could easily destroy a wind farm.
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>> Seems to me a well co-ordinated swarm of precisely directed small cheap suicide drones could
>> easily destroy a wind farm.
Maybe, or as the Germans discovered bombing radar stations in WW2 taking out towers needs a direct hit. I'd also suspect that if the foundations etc remain in place and new towers and turbines can be brought up a station could be back on line pdq,
A lot easier taking out a refinery or gas fired power station with a bomb.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 18 Mar 26 at 11:53
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>>
>> Seems to me a well co-ordinated swarm of precisely directed small cheap suicide drones could
>> easily destroy a wind farm.
>>
Fundamental difference.
Attack by drone is directly offensive action targeted at the UK against which we could defend ourselves.
Market price of oil and gas can be affected by events 10000 miles away for reasons having nothing to do with the UK and about which we have no defensive response.
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Pinched from another place:
It's been pointed out that since wind and solar power do not pass through the Strait of Hermuz that prices for them should not shift very much.
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Fuel prices tonight at my nearest petrol station, northern C Blanca.
Diesel €182.9
Premium diesel €193.9
Petrol (gasolina)
95 octane €169.9
97 octane €180.9
A long time since diesel was more expensive than petrol, hence why my spanish friends drive diesel cars.
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Word on the street is that fuel prices here in Portugal go up tomorrow (Mon). I've no idea what they were though. I now I picked my rental (brand new Fabia, 11km on clock) a week ago with a near-empty tank so will need to rejuice next time I go out. Will report back on prices.
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Now seeing diesel well into the 160s, i wonder where it'll stop.
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Unleaded in my nearest town:
BP = 136.9
ASDA = 144.9
GULF = 149.9!!
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ASDA colchester 134.9 this morning.
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A barrel of oil holds 42 US gallons - 190 itres.
At £1.35 litre, petrol includes 22p VAT + 53p duty leaving 60p for the fuel. The fuel cost includes refining, distribution, retailing and profit. A guess - the value of the oil in each litre of petrol is 30-40p.
The price of a barrel of oil has doubled since the war started from ~$65 to ~$130. With 190 litres in every barrel, the increase in price per litre is ~25p (~35 cents).
The refining produces many outputs - diesel, kerosine, heavy oils etc. But the simplistic conclusion is that if the oil price doubles it should put ~30p including VAT on the price per litre.
Any more and the oil and petrol companies are making hay at our expense!
Last edited by: Terry on Mon 9 Mar 26 at 15:16
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Portugal - bought some at €1.79 then saw it a bit cheaper in Auchan. That's about £1.55. The web tells me that is about €0.08 up on yesterday.
A chart I found shows diesel was about €1.58.9 yesterday and is 1.79.9 today, now more than petrol. Looks about right, 8c on petrol, 20c on diesel
www.fuelflash.eu/en/e_s_-faro-liceu-a-faro-portugal-av_-dr_-almeida-carrapato-63343/
Last edited by: smokie on Mon 9 Mar 26 at 15:20
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Friends driving back to the UK through France tell me today that diesel is over €2 a litre off motorway.
Inflation here we come…
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What is this....."diesel" stuff you speak of?
A "gallon" appears to cost more than it costs to fill my automobile.
Seriously though, considering fuel duty has been fixed at 58p per litre for FIFTEEN YEARS (plus an extra 5p/litre "temporary" reduction since 2022) y'all are getting off pretty lightly.
If duty had risen by inflation it would now be 86p per litre (+VAT)
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The fuel duty freeze has been politically expedient to pretend that the political class give a T about the problem.
If the 86p fuel duty is correct.. How much in billions is that worth and would it be spent sensibly.
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>>If the 86p fuel duty is correct.. How much in billions is that worth
www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator - 2011 -> Jan 2026 = 49% inflationary rise.
£24bn/yr at present with the 53p/litre rate (58p discounted temporarily....), so an extra £12bn/yr roughly.
>>would it be spent sensibly
ahahahahahaha..................
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 10 Mar 26 at 02:04
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Surely the fuel price increases are just a product of the fuel company's profiteering? The fuel we're currently using was already in stock at the refinery.
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>> Surely the fuel price increases are just a product of the fuel company's profiteering? The
>> fuel we're currently using was already in stock at the refinery.
Correct, but the fuel companies are now having to buy at the increased rate and will have to charge the end user proportionately. Imagine the public outcry if the motorist were charged the current rate (if) when the price drops.
I'm no supporter of the fuel companies,
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AIUI the typical forecourt has just 2 or 3 days of normal fuel demand in their tanks. The average car will do (say) 400 miles on a tank of fuel - equal to 2-3 weeks average motoring.
Panic buying initial impact is to drain the forecourts which then close until resupplied. The tanker fleet is sized to meet normal demand for deliveries and cannot resupply much faster.
Retailers buying fuel from distribution centres and refineries will therefore be faced with their increases in just a couple of days wen they replenish forecourt tanks.
This amplifies the problem as motorists believe fuel shortages are real. They then top up their tanks when still 3/4 full rather than waiting until a 1/4 full.
The UK does have significant strategic fuel reserves + that held in refineries and distribution centres so there is no immediate concern over fuel availability. But if these stacks are used they need to be replaced with fuel at the higher price.
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The real issue is whether prices charged should be set by reference to original or replacement cost.
Most businesses aspire and expect to be around for the long term. They need to carry stock appropriate to the volume they sell.
If replacement cost (say) doubles, but sold based upon the original cost, income raised will be insufficient to replace it. Two options - borrow money to fund replacement stock, or contract the business by replacing with half the quantity - both unattractive.
Were there confidence the increase in the cost was just a blip, to swiftly return to historic levels, some companies may choose to absorb the "blip" to avoid destabilising market etc. But this carries real risk - will disruption last 3 weeks, 3 months or 3 years.
I fully understand why prices at the pumps are increased with immediate effect. The risk of exploitation arises if prices paid for fuel are not reduced equally quickly if or when market prices of replacement stock falls.
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Your assuming they pay for it before they sell it which is probably true.
Also, it's a fungible commodity. Yesterday when you closed you had say £10,000 worth of petrol. Today when you open you find you have £10,500 worth of petrol. Win!
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The only thing I am assuming is that suppliers will use uncertainty to maximise profits. The rule in fuel buying is that prices rise quickly (read instantly) and drop slowly. It has always been thus in my experience, and my experience goes all the way back to the fuel crisis in the early 70's. (I still have my rationing book from that period)
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>> Your assuming they pay for it before they sell it which is probably true.
>>
>> Also, it's a fungible commodity. Yesterday when you closed you had say £10,000 worth of
>> petrol. Today when you open you find you have £10,500 worth of petrol. Win!
But you still have the same number of litres.
Bit like the value of your house increase - completely irrelevant until you downsize, die or want to borrow against its value.
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>>Bit like the value of your house increase
I'd contrast the two. The fuel is stock in trade. It would be analogous if you were selling your house tomorrow - you'd want the current value for it.
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>> >> Your assuming they pay for it before they sell it which is probably true.
I think its bought and paid for in two main ways, spot prices and futures, or a combo of the two.
The pump price always seems to follow spot prices
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>>Your...
You're, sorry. Disgraceful.
Diesel £1.63 in Aylesbury, that's a shock. Petrol's only up 12p or so.
This could go on a while. Just watched a couple of experts discussing the Strait of Hormuz. It might not be so easy for the US to keep it open. Perhaps that's what Iran meant when they said they'll decide when the war ends.
I really hope it does, not for Trump's sake but because Russia benefits and while the US is burning through munitions, there's less for Ukraine even if Europe wants to buy it. Ukraine is of more importance to us than the Gulf.
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En route home from Kitzbuhel on Saturday,.....diesel in Salzburg Euro199.5 (my ancient keyboard doesn't do the euro sign). Now Mrs F and I are in our dotage the total annual mileage of our three cars is no more than 8k p.a., with annual petrol cost around £1500 for the past few years, fortunately a tiny percentage of our combined income, so even if it doubles we shall not change our driving habits. Anyway, 'petrolprices' shows my cheapest local is (hats off to) Kettering Tesco, E10 136.9p today.
BUT, the latest quote for our heating oil, bought for 48p plus vat per litre last July, is 132p plus vat! Have easyJet and Ryanair bagged all the kerosene? Prob got enough till July, but underfloor heat now off; and off to the woods with my chainsaw........
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"my ancient keyboard doesn't do the euro sign"
Have you tried pressing Ctrl+Alt+4? (On Windows)
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... or just the right hand Alt (AltGr on my Lenovo laptop) and 4 (top row, I don't think it'd work on they numeric keypad on the rh side of some keyboards)
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Alt Gr/4 (4 key that is also $ without shift) is what I always use on Windows.
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>> "my ancient keyboard doesn't do the euro sign"
>>
>> Have you tried pressing Ctrl+Alt+4? (On Windows)
>>
..or search for 'character map' on windows. Open it up and there are a zillion characters to choose from (including the € sign). Scroll 3/4 down towards to bottom (left hand side) to see it.
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Your fixed tariff from April 1st:
Electricity tariff (Intelligent Octopus Go 12M Fixed):
Peak unit rate: 23.23 p / kWh
Off-peak unit rate: 3.49 p / kWh
Standing charge: 47.72 p / day
Think I'll get myself a diesel.
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>> Think I'll get myself a diesel.
>>
Or PV panels.
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Problems with € sign takes me back over 40 years!
The first IBM PCs imported from the US had US keyboards and no £ sig - Alt 156 was the way around the issue.
The first spreadsheets were Lotus 123/Multiplan were like wise problematic.
The original Epson Dot Matrix had only 128 characters and no £ sign even when you had one of the screen.
The original IBM printer, made by Epson, had a £ sign but cost a scary £430+VAT (£1800+VAT in today's money)
Easiest PC keyboard, IHMO, for the € on the number pad is Alt 0128 - used for a long time
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... unless you have no numeric keypad of course! :-)
Yes, re printing I remember the advent of wysiwyg for printers...
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>> ... unless you have no numeric keypad of course! :-)
very much a thing of the past
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No Petrol Asda Colchester today. Or Diesel.
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Texaco between Malmsbury and Cotswold Airport, 1.49, no cars in it, hauled in 1/2 tank full and away
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If only I had been at home I would have filled up yesterday for next to nothing - part of the day was negative cost the rest was pennies per kWh. It's plugged in and ready to go but it's already full!
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I've seen as high as 180 for diesel. Pretty steep that.
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>>I've seen as high as 180 for diesel. Pretty steep that.
191.9 on Sunday. Appears to have risen to 195.9 today!
That's a standard Shell, minor A-road garage that was at the low end of pricing before this kicked off.
It's most certainly a bit of an outlier locally, however, with mid 160s being more the norm round here (but creeping up).
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Wed 25 Mar 26 at 22:09
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A mate has bought a couple of 22litre jerry cans and has filled them up with petrol and stored them in his garage.
I'm not so sure that's a good idea.
Mind you, shortly after I moved in to my current house, my next door neighbour had a plastic oil tank placed on his drive. It held over 1,000 litres of diesel.
He told me that it was because he wanted to hedge against rising fuel prices for his cars and company truck.
Only when he died did we find out it was to run a very silenced generator for his grow house lighting and hydroponics!!! :-D
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>>A mate has bought a couple of 22litre jerry cans and has filled them up with petrol and stored them in his garage.
Reminds me of '73 when I had 2 x 5 gallon drums of 4 star in my toilet :o)
One bedroom, no kitchen, and no bathroom - the 'good' ole days :(
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>> A mate has bought a couple of 22litre jerry cans and has filled them up
>> with petrol and stored them in his garage.
>> Mind you, shortly after I moved in to my current house, my next door neighbour
>> had a plastic oil tank placed on his drive. It held over 1,000 litres of
>> diesel.
I think you may find both are illegal. There's certainly an upper limit of petrol you can legally store. Imagine the chaos 44 litres of petrol could cause in a fire.
Oil storage tanks require planning permission, bunding etc.
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<< I think you may find both are illegal. There's certainly an upper limit of petrol you can legally store. >>
Google tells me up to 30 litres can be stored without notification - in 10-litre plastic or 20-litre metal containers. Even those quantities could easily be a severe problem. I have a 5-litre plastic can for the mower.
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Schedule 2 to the Petroleum (Consolidation) Regulations 2014.
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1637/schedule/2/made
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my 2 local filling stations on the northern CBlanca today €1.489 litre, for 95 RON. Exchange rate just under €1.15 so about £1.30 litre.
Full tank tomorrow before returning the rental car.
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€2.02/litre here in southern Germany.
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My local jumped from £145.9 straight to £154.9 earlier this week. Morrisons in Haverfordwest are £144.9 so Mrs O'Reliant filled up today after the weekly shop.
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>> Oil storage tanks require planning permission, bunding etc.
>>
That sort of thing didn't bother him. There was certainly no bunding, it just sat on the drive.
Probably why he bought the house - were on an unadopted road, on a long private drive with a small wood between us and road and about 30ft higher than the road so you can't see the first floor of the house from the road.
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>>Only when he died did we find out it was to run a very silenced generator for his grow house lighting and hydroponics!!! :
I suspect we can all guess why!
Dog?
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Thu 26 Mar 26 at 22:32
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>> I think you may find both are illegal. There's certainly an upper limit of petrol
>> you can legally store. Imagine the chaos 44 litres of petrol could cause in a
>> fire.
An old guy I used to know way back told me that during the war his neighbour was loading drums of black market petrol on to a truck when it exploded. He was very badly burned and died about a week later in agony.
Last edited by: expat2 on Fri 27 Mar 26 at 09:38
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Filled up my hire car tonight before flying home tomorrow.
Two local filling stations selling 95RON @ €1.429 litre. Revolut exchange rate €1.15, so £1.243 litre.
Spanish Govt have reduced VAT on fuel from 21% to 10%. Well done.
Is the UK following suit anyone know ?
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It's around €2 here in Portugal though I understand they are reducing tax by something, probably from Monday.
The Skoda car goes back on Monday, the replacement for the remainder of the holiday is electric. You pick it up full but don't have to refill. There is no shortage of charge points here though I don't know the cost. Cheaper per mile than dino juice I suspect!!
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far braver than I.
Not having owned an EV, getting one as a rental would be my worst nightmare. In 3 weeks i’ve filled my C3 Aircross 4 times now…lots of both motorway miles and second gear stuff in the mountains, but i do thrash it hard. Must be a small tank…6 speed box but struggles when 4 up.
I saw on OK rental Škoda Kamiq…wished i’d got one of those, or the proposed T Cross but hey ho.
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I had an Aircross in Dec, quite liked it (for the money - €30is for 8 days IIRC)
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Sainsbury Cobham. £1.49.9 litre E10
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Why all the fuss.
Let's assume that you store 00 litres in cans in the garage. Probably against regs but who cares.
The current price hike over the last month is around 15p - lets assume things get no better and the price increase rises to 30p litre.
So by thoughtfully storing the aforesaid 100 litres you may save yourself ~£30 - the cost of a couple of pizzas delivered. Hardly worth the hassle.
The other risk is forecourts running dry for more than a couple of days - usual cause is panic, folk fill up before they need to. You may just have to change some short term travel plans - if the shortage becomes permanent you will end up ratiooned anyway.
Personal view - if the prices rise to £2 litre I will be a bit cross but carry on as normal. At £3-4 (or more) I may be more thoughtful about longer journeys, but unconcerned about local use. If over a week I do 50 miles locally - ~5 litres - the financial cost is inconsequential.
My annual fuel bill is £12-1500 pa - the depresiation or lease costs on a fairly modest newish car will be £2-4000 a year. We need to keep a sense of proportion. It is those getting by on more marginal finances who will be understandably concerned.
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My prudent expectation is that there will be a genuine shortage. Ok so it is mostly about inconvenience and we'll have to live with it but it will mess with us.
In a couple of weeks I plan to go down to Castle Combe for a track day with the MX-5. I'll set off with a full tank (9 gallons usable). I reckon I can get there and back on 5 gallons, driving with restraint. But I think say 80 miles on the circuit will use 4 gallons even at my modest pace. So I will probably arrive home with the reserve in the tank, so I have decided to risk it.
My brother is coming from Yorkshire to me then to C. Combe and back, then home. For him that will be about 560 miles plus the 80 on track, in a 1991 car that does 30mpg in normal use and has a 10 usable gallon tank. He'll need to set off with a full tank and fill up twice before getting home.
We've seen nothing yet except price rises and minor stock-outs caused by 'panic' (sensible) buying. Up to this point, the stoppage at Hormuz has not bitten because the tankers we depended on passed the strait before it was closed. But when it does bite, global fuel supply will not match demand. It's quite possible there will be rationing.
I found a half mile queue at the Tesco in Aylesbury yesterday. Today however in Leighton Buzzard I filled up with Momentum with no queuing at all.
The tragedy of the commons applies. We can probably all get by if we were to cooperate. But not everybody will. So the rational course is to keep the tanks topped up whether you need it right now or not.
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If the great british public keep their b***** heads on, and dont panic buy, there will be no shortage and no rationing. Expensive, yes, shortage no.
Ironically if HM gov slapped another 50p a litre in Vat to send it over 2 quid tomorrow, and the press didnt jump in about fake shortages. it would kill any idea of panic buying.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 28 Mar 26 at 20:18
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Around 20% of the world oil supply passes through Hormuz.
The reduction in global supply in the short and medium term will be rather less than this as Iran may allow "friendly" tankers to pass + other suppliers may be able to increase output to some extent + strategic reserves released - assume a 10-15% reduction overall.
The International community will not agree that all users share in the pain equally. Market forces will prevail - the price will increase until supply again matches demand.
Harsh reality is that the poorest will bear the biggest impact - internationally those countries already struggling, and in the UK those on lower incomes. The rest - countries and individuals will deal with it - not pleasant but hardly life changing.
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Tesco at Sunbury had sold out of unleaded yesterday at 144.9. I paid 151.9 in Hersham.
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I paid £1.54 litre for E5 on Thursday @ local Tesco.
In Stirling on Friday I saw £1.69 for E10 (Shell) on Friday, V-Power will undoubtedly be around £1.85+ ish
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<< Market forces will prevail - the price will increase until supply again matches demand. >>
I would have thought that unless a lot of activity stops, 'demand' would be pretty steady ? Some users will start to use their strategic reserve, but small businesses will need to carry on, grumbling about the price.
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>> << Market forces will prevail - the price will increase until supply again matches demand.
>> >>
>>
>> I would have thought that unless a lot of activity stops, 'demand' would be pretty
>> steady ? Some users will start to use their strategic reserve, but small businesses will
>> need to carry on, grumbling about the price.
It won't impact everybody equally, but the sort of changes likely:
- a few mainly city/town dwellers will give up driving in favour of public transport and cycling
- work colleagues may car share commuting
- less money for consumer goods generally means fewer deliveries, shoping centre visits etc
- some will avoid longer journeys
- some will drive slower and more economically
- some will trade in for more economical cars when changing
- some will downscale or cancel holiday plans due to increasing costs
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>> Texaco between Malmsbury and Cotswold Airport, 1.49, no cars in it, hauled in 1/2 tank
>> full and away
Found out why there was no queue. They cloned my credit card and tried to buy train tickets.
Texaco, Crudwell Road, Malmsebury
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Found out why there was no queue. They cloned my credit card and tried to buy train tickets.
Have you reported it to plod ( or others ? )
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Nat West security, they were on the ball
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<< They cloned my credit card and tried to buy train tickets. >>
Was that done without you handing the card over ? Clever stuff !
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Was the card actually physically cloned or was it the card details that were copied and used in a CNP transaction? I thought that chip and pin cards were very difficult if not impossible to clone.
How did the security people know that it was the garage where the card was cloned?
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It was a contactless transaction, I got a receipt printed, it was the only time the card had been used in two weeks, and three transactions were attempted to buy train tickets on three different train companies 24 hours later. GWR, Govia Thames link, and one other. All were declined (so I assume a pin was needed or online and CSV was wrong) NAT West then put a temp block on, and contacted me.
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Sounds like they tried to use your card details on line rather than physically making a cloned card and attempting to make a contactless payment.
Many years ago I had a magnetic stripe card’s details stolen in Budapest, then notorious for the crime. Cloned card was used in Italy where they bought several thousand pounds worth of computer equipment. Took weeks to resolve.
I always use iPhone now for payments. A lot more secure and no one gets to see your card. Unlimited contactless amount too.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 31 Mar 26 at 08:15
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Had my corporate amex card copied in the 90's in the days of chunka chunka machines, that was at a filling station, and caused a world of agro.
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>> Had my corporate amex card copied in the 90's in the days of chunka chunka machines, that was at a filling station, and caused a world of agro. >>
In the early days there were occasions when the card was taken 'off-stage' for the transaction as it were, at an Indian restaurant for example, when details were easily duplicated.
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In the days of magnetic stripe cards the details were easily read by a portable reader and duplicated onto a blank card. Often done by a waiter in a restaurant when they took your card away to process the payment of your bill. I believe that is what happened to me. I don’t think it is possible to copy the details of a modern chipped card in this manner.
It grieved me when I found out what had happene. I had given the waiter a very decent tip.
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Card Fraud...
In the 1980's one bank was at the centre of a huge card fraud in the UK.
Basically there were only 3 pin numbers - set deliberately - so if an associated thief got hold of a card, they would have a near 100% of getting the pin right (machines gave 3 attempts and there's bound to be some mis-keying).
www.theregister.com/2005/10/21/phantoms_and_rogues/
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Some time ago, SWMBO bought a bunch of flowers from a local florist. Paid by credit card.
I noticed a duplicate debit on her statement marked 'payer not present'.
The CC company told us not to contact the police, which we ignored. The police were very interested and, I understand, gave the florist a very stern warning!
I now insist on receipts for all transactions and compare them to statements. It horrifies me to see folk walk away without receipts and presume they don't bother checking their statements.
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I always pay by phone and always decline a receipt because there’s a record in my Apple wallet of the transactions. I also don’t bother with a printed statement, but periodically scan the transactions in my banking app looking for anything untoward. I don’t carry out a detailed reconciliation mind you. And never have. But I always have a rough of idea of what the balance on cards / in accounts should be, and if it’s materially different I look more closely. It always turns out to be money I’ve spent though unfortunately!
The only time I use a physical card is when I’m in the US or parts of the Caribbean, where the adoption of contactless payment (either card or ‘phone) is , or at least was, less widespread than in most of the civilised world. In more outlets than you’d expect they still expect to take your card away to swipe it before coming back with a slip to sign. However, I haven’t been for a couple of years and certainly have no plans in the short or medium term to do so…
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I do exactly the same Peter.
A few years back I used to keep all receipts, which was a challenge as it was a joint bank account, and export a csv of my bank statement to a spreadsheet and populate columns with codes for the spending etc.
After about a year I realised I never had a single rogue transaction and all the info it gave me on where our money went was
A. Roughly what we expected and
B. Did not help form any decisions on future spending.
So the spreadsheet got binned.
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>> A few years back I used to keep all receipts, which was a challenge as
>> it was a joint bank account, and export a csv of my bank statement to
>> a spreadsheet and populate columns with codes for the spending etc.
Kept manual records in a notebook for ages and reconciled them to the monthly printed statement like I did for the accounts at work. When we got a PC I used Intuit and then MS programmes with codes to categorise spend.
It told me we spend far too much on drink. But a quick glance at our recycling would tell me that.
Canned it for a few years albeit with a brief revival during the pandemic.
CWOT.
I do though check internet banking first thing most days. Picked up the odd error/oddity including a mischarged ULEZ fee for a day the car was nowhere near London. TfL agreed and refunded it.
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SWMBO was a banker in a past life and keeps fairly meticulous records of a accounts, balancing them every month and fretting over mismatches by even a few pence (often user error!). Means I can't get away with a crafty spend anywhere and I wouldn't bother with doing it myself but I like it that she does.
I've managed to apply a chi-ching notification to my Android when any notifications come from any of my finance places (only a few, and not standing orderes etc). It means within seconds I am alerted of a transaction or event, sometimes only to say a payment is due but I'd soon be aware if I was frauded. It is really irritating sometimes though!
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Can't say i look much at my account, let alone do some sort of checking of every penny in and out. As long as there's enough to pay for stuff that'll do.
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Both my daughters have suffered separately from not checking, both with long term recurring (and not insignificant - £100s) monthly payments which they had trouble recovering. I don't recall the detail but I don't recall either was really their fault e.g. something they'd signed up to and forgotten to cancel.
Having said that, I'd only be giving a cursory glance at it once a month if it were me, not balancing to the n'th degree...
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I rarely used to check my bank account - I always kept a balance large enough to cover normal expenditure assuming salary etc got paid in regularly.
About 20 years ago I bought a buy to let flat managed through a letting agent. The agent clearly felt fast cars and fine wine were more important than paying over my rent.
This became evident when some administrators let me know that he was bankrupt. He also had expensive tastes in fast women and expensive property. Lost 3 months rent
Sad to report - I now keep a spreadsheet - downloading banking details avery month or two. Over the years I have found a few anomalies where credit card had clearly been cloned or an error made.
The spreadsheet also gets used to both fill in and check my tax returns, validate tax coding notices, and understand whether taxman owes me, or sadly the reverse.
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A friend is in China at the moment, petrol 80p a litre and a brand new EV £6000.
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.. and the average monthly salary?
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>> .. and the average monthly salary?
>>
Decent enough if you're middle class I think. He says the roads are full of EV's.
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I believe the price of a litre of petrol was around 89p when the tanker drivers protest took place in 2001. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator that equates to £1.69 today, so we ain't done too bad (So far, anyway).
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>> I believe the price of a litre of petrol was around 89p when the tanker
>> drivers protest took place in 2001. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator that
>> equates to £1.69 today, so we ain't done too bad (So far, anyway).
Yup.
The fuel duty escalator wasn't wholly bad.
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>> A friend is in China at the moment, petrol 80p a litre and a brand
>> new EV £6000.
Exchange rates with China do not behave conventionally. I don't know much about the reasons for that but the usual relationships between interest rates, inflation, growth, trade balance and exchange rates between currencies don't apply apparently.
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Exchange rates not the point in this example, its the comparative factor
China
ie Petrol is 80p a litre. EV is £6000
EV costs 7,500 litres of petrol
UK
Petrol is say (today) £1.55 litre. Mg Urban EV is £24k
EV costs 15,500 litres of petrol
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Octopus have just reduced my overnight charging rate from 7p per KwH to 5.2 per KwH. That’s now about £1.30 for a 100 mile journey.
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Tomorrow's half hourly rates are good on Octopus. From 11pm till 4pm tomorrow is negative without a break and there are 4 half hours where Octopus would pay me over 10p a unit for each unit used.
Shame I'm in Portugal and can't fire up the pyrolytic oven and put the fan heater on in the garden**, and the car is already fully charged. However my neighbour is getting about 40kWh into his from my charger tomorrow, which will make me a bob or two :-)
** which may sound reckless but the reason it's cheap it because there is overproduction and it costs them much more to pay the producers for unused elec than it does to pay me to waste it.to pay the producers (see curtailment) timharper.net/wind-curtailment-costs-uk/#:~:text=In%202025%20the%20UK%20spent,60%20per%20year%20by%202030.
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If Fuel is rationed my biggest concern is how will I collect it? What will I actually do with it? Haven't bought any petrol since 2021 when I bought my first EV.
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Maybe there’ll be a black market in petrol coupons ;)
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I've still got mine from the 1973 oil crisis (what crisis)
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Panic buying? - James Loveless
