Continuation of the discussion on cycling in the Metropolis...
Volume 1:-www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=9218&v=f
A40 year old cyclist wearing glasses has been charged with" pedal cycling in contravention of a direction given by a PC"
Allegwdly he was cycling on the A3 between New Malden and Tolworth at 8.50 pm with carrier bags and no lights on his bike.
For anyone who knows this road, the guy was lucky to survive.
Last edited by: R.P. on Fri 9 Mar 12 at 21:09
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>> A40 year old cyclist wearing glasses has been charged with" pedal cycling in contravention of
>> a direction given by a PC"
>>
>> Allegwdly he was cycling on the A3 between New Malden and Tolworth at 8.50 pm
>> with carrier bags and no lights on his bike.
>>
>> For anyone who knows this road, the guy was lucky to survive.
>>
Whereabouts is the A3? What's it like traffic wise, I take it it's fast ?
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>>Whereabouts is the A3? What's it like traffic wise, I take it it's fast ?
>>
SW London. it becomes a 3 lane dual carriageway at Putney and is dual carriageway
all the way to Portsmouth. A busy road 24/7
The part concerned is a just few miles from Putney. A 50 mph section that is reasonably steep uphill for a cyclist then down hill to a slip road off at Tolworth.
At least it is straght at that part with a Gatso.
I have used the road hundreds of times ( including today) and I do not recall cyclists on it.
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>> is dual carriageway all the way to Portsmouth.
>>
It used to be single carriageway at Hindhead until Zero drove a tunnel under The Devil's Punchbowl recently.
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>> A40 year old cyclist wearing glasses has been charged with" pedal cycling in contravention of
>> a direction given by a PC"
>>
>> Allegwdly he was cycling on the A3 between New Malden and Tolworth at 8.50 pm
>> with carrier bags and no lights on his bike.
Have you got a link for that HK?
Lunacy by look of it; presumably PC directed him off the road.
Intrigued by relevance of 'wearing glasses'!!
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>>Have you got a link for that HK?
No online link that I could find.
It is in this weeks Surrey Comet from which I have listed the, IMO, key points.
>> Lunacy by look of it;
I agree. I posted it because I just could not believe it.
He "was arrested by police at at Tolworth Roundabout and taken away in a police van."
This suggestes he had taken the high speed (50mph ) slip road after leaving the A3 and he was stopped in a safer 30 mph limit area.
There was no information about where the police saw him.
the paper report says " Drivers heading south on the three -lane carriageway ....were stunned to see....
Perhaps he failed the attitude test?
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Sadly another cyclist wasn't so lucky when riding on a fast moving A road.
For some reason he wasn't using the cycleway, that runs along that road.
tinyurl.com/8748cvc - www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/news/
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 10 Mar 12 at 00:21
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ST
The driver in that case, Paul Luker, was found guilty of causing death by dangerous driving.
tinyurl.com/6n2u8rs
When HK mentioned the A3 incident my first thought was of the A40 around where Gp Cpt Barrett was killed. Mrs B and I met in 1983 through the YHA group in Harrow and, in our courtship, as a couple or with others, often used the A40 from the Target R/B to Denham and beyond bound for weekends at Jordans, Lee Gate or Bradenham Youth Hostels. No other practical & fast route out of London bearing in mind we were working until 17:00. Not fun but safe provided drivers obeyed the rules. Luker did not and I'm mildly puzzled as to why you linked to a trial report rather than the verdict.
Don't remember a cycle lane but all too often they're badly routed, ill lit & poorly surfaced even before locals apply a top dressing of broken glass and dog poo.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 9 Mar 12 at 22:20
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>> the rules. Luker did not and I'm mildly puzzled as to why you linked to
>> a trial report rather than the verdict.
ST, I apologise for the slightly tetchy wording above - I misread your comment as blaming the victim.
The local paper report is quite interesting because it shows Luker practically convicted himself by admitting he was not looking out for cyclists.
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>> >> the rules. Luker did not and I'm mildly puzzled as to why you linked to a trial report rather than the verdict.
>>
>> ST, I apologise for the slightly tetchy wording above - I misread your comment as
>> blaming the victim.
>>
>> The local paper report is quite interesting because it shows Luker practically convicted himself by
>> admitting he was not looking out for cyclists.
>>
No problem Bromp.
I agree that Luker probably said things in a way he may regret, but he has to live with a much larger regret for the rest of his life. (not seeing the cyclist, and hitting him.)
But in his defence, that is a fast moving 3 lane road, with a cycle lane beside it, and the cyclist was wearing dark clothing. How many other people would have expected a cycle there / seen it in time?
There but the grace of God.
IMHO it was a recipe for disaster.
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>> There but the grace of God.
>> IMHO it was a recipe for disaster.
>>
Quite agree. You create your won luck in life...and cycling along that road isn't creating your own luck.
In effect, it's a motorway (only the lanes are narrower). Who in their right mind would want to cycle along it?
It would be a matter of when, not if.
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>> Quite agree. You create your won luck in life...and cycling along that road isn't creating
>> your own luck.
>>
>> In effect, it's a motorway (only the lanes are narrower). Who in their right mind
>> would want to cycle along it?
>>
>> It would be a matter of when, not if.
Just done a fly through of the A40 on Streetview. A few changes west of Northolt – more grade separated junctions – but in other places it’s not much different to how I remember it from the eighties.
I certainly wouldn’t tackle it on the Brommy and I’m not sure I’d have the nerve now even on a fast tourer or road bike. Back then though we’d regularly use it or the A41 round Watford on a Friday night. Five or six of us riding bit & bit (lead for 10 mins then drop to back) could get 20 miles under your belt in not much over an hour, and that with light touring bags. It was nice to get past Denham or Hemel though and on an older quieter (but statistically more risky 'rural' A road.
The other thing streetmap illustrates is how many other hazards there are on a road that’s been allowed to look and feel like a motorway. There are pavements on both sides, that on the south is shared use with cyclists. At one point on the eastbound pass the mapping car was there at 15:30 – 16:00 and there are kids walking home from school along the pavement. Although the major junctions flyover/under there’s probably still the odd side road as well.
The cycle lane the Gp Capt might have followed leaves the road at the junction west of Northolt and presumably goes through the roundabouts above to re-join further west. Now I don’t know this place but there’s another problem with bike lanes. In the name of ‘safety’ they take you off the route you want but then end short of a r/bout or crossroads dumping you nearside close to a turn - or expect you to dismount and walk.
And however much you campaign you get nothing – been there tried it; the highway engineers know best. Ditto on surfacing and sharing with peds, dogs on stealth tripwires, broken glass etc; ‘the route meets the specification and DfT rules’.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 12 Mar 12 at 20:26
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Contrary to earlier reoprts Luker (the driver who killed Gp Capt Barrett) was convicted of death by Careless rather than dangerous. Sentenced on Monday. Got 100hrs community service an a 12month ban.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17512797
Not really adequate IMHO but a I wasn't in court I don't know all the facts.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 28 Mar 12 at 14:17
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Rereading my own post, it may appear that I have put the blame on the cyclist - I don't mean to, but, as Westpig points out you do create your own luck.
That accident was, IMHO pure bad luck, with some blame falling on both parties.
One has to live with the memories of that day for the rest of his life.
The other does not.
His family does.
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>> I misread your comment as blaming the victim.
Angels may fear to tread here Bromptonaut, but from the data given I would certainly attribute half the responsibility at least to the victim.
If cycleways are normally rendered unusable by local slobs - so much so that a keen cyclist like you doesn't really notice them - isn't it time for a campaign by cyclists to keep them clean and smooth?
Some people seem to imagine that any crash involving a motor vehicle and a cyclist or pedestrian is necessarily the vehicle driver's fault. I know from my own experience that this is total rubbish. I have saved the life of many a silly kamikaze.
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What can one do if you find a cyclist ( or pedestrian ) in this situation ?
Use your right hand indicatot to warn following vehicles?
It is probably to dangerous to keep behind to protect the idiot at risk to your self.
Safely report the situation asap seems the best option.
A few years I reported that a group of pedestrians were on the raised part / flyover of the A40 at White City. The response was " We will despatch a car immediately"
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I know that section of the A3 well. ( I was walking to the big B&Q by the A3 yesterday evening while some scumbags were doing over my house - see other thread!)
It is dual three lane but the lanes are very narrow, only nine or ten feet. So lorries struggle to stay in lane and passing them is an act of faith.
I have seen lycra clad road cyclists on there doing 25-30mph but there is no way of even a car overtaking them without changing lanes. It is crazy for so many reasons, one being there is a service road alongside for the full length of the section.
To do it in the dark, without lights and slowly is completely suicidal.
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On the subject of the A3 and cyclists using the road when a cycle path is provided. Further up the A3 at Roehampton, heading into town where the A3 is a 3-lane dual carriageway (40 mph limit), uphill section, I am always amazed why cyclists chose the road rather than a perfectly good cycle lane. The road in this case is a bus lane that can be used by goods vehicles. When I cycle there is no way I will use the road if a good cycle path is available. Again, people do make their own luck?
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>> I have seen lycra clad road cyclists on there doing 25-30mph but there is no
>> way of even a car overtaking them without changing lanes. It is crazy for so
>> many reasons, one being there is a service road alongside for the full length of
>> the section.
HC rule 163 says you should give vulnerable road users as much space as a car. Compliance requires a change of lane.
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...HC rule 163 says you should give vulnerable road users as much space as a car. Compliance requires a change of lane...
As they peeled the dying cyclist off the road, his last words were: "The overtaking manoeuvre of that driver was not Highway Code rule 163 compliant."
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I cycle whenever I can. I am assertive when I need to be, maybe too assertive at times.
But you would never get me cycling along this road. No matter what the Highway Code says.
g.co/maps/3h7q5
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Bit like the A40 in character. Sight lines are good and at time that streetview patrol was there traffic not too heavy Pretty sure I'd have used that road in the eighties but would be a bit chary now.
The service road looks like a good bet going west, what's the story coming the other way?
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>> HC rule 163 says you should give vulnerable road users as much space as a
>> car. Compliance requires a change of lane.
Fair enough, but you have to (a) see them, and (b) have time to do that.
At 50mph, and quite possibly with the cyclist obscured from your view by the vehicle in front of you - even if you aren't tailgating, happen not to be checking the mirror when he is revealed, and you see him straight way, you have maybe two seconds to avoid him with traffic bearing down on your offside.
I have great sympathy for the family of Group Captain Barrett, but also for Paul Luker and his family. A mistake, yes. Dangerous driving? Well, I wasn't there - but was it only a presumption?
I wouldn't think of cycling on that road, and next time I drive on it I'll think of this sad story and stay in lane 2.
Roads like that are a rough deal for cyclists, but for safety's sake they should consider whether it's safe, and fair to other road users, to assert their right to be there.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 12 Mar 12 at 21:45
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I noticed this today
epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/31174
It's nothing to do with me, I hasten to add:)
Pat
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>> he was cycling on the A3 between New Malden and Tolworth at 8.50 pm with ... no lights on his bike
>> Have you got a link for that?
www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/9583052.Cyclist_nicked_for_cycling_on_A3_with_no_lights/
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>> No guessing!!
>>
>> bikebutterfly.com/
>>
That is a joke... isn't it??
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Look at the date on Sunday:)
Pat
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>> Look at the date on Sunday:)
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>> Pat
>>
My ex-wifes birthday...... God did she make a fool out of me!
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...My ex-wifes birthday...God did she make a fool out of me!...
Aye, said she was born in 1968 when it was really 1948.
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>> ...My ex-wifes birthday...God did she make a fool out of me!...
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>> Aye, said she was born in 1968 when it was really 1948.
>>
Iffy..... she WAS born in '68..... spooky!
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It's my birthday too;)
Pat
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Sort of thing that would embelish a girls bike quite nicely.
For the cyclist's take see:
www.cyclechat.net/threads/bike-butterfly-making-pedestrians-look.98423/
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 28 Mar 12 at 09:45
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Cyclists in London - sooty123
