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Continuing debate.
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Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 5 May 16 at 10:19
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>>Doesn't matter anyway, unless Labour suddenly find a source for working magic wands and a supply of oofle dust they aren't going to be in power for the foreseeable future and never while Corbyn is at the helm. >>
They can do serious damage at local government level, though.
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>> They can do serious damage at local government level, though.
If people vote for them, they should be governed by them. If it creates local problems for the voters...well they got what they voted for.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 8 Feb 16 at 00:59
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Another poke in the eye for Corbyn.
sundodgers.com
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Not normally something I'd watch, but a great bit of timing.
youtu.be/TCbWLeJ35cA
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His own side were trying to supress a laugh.
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Ok, this time a little amusing. But hardly worth a belly laugh.
*ALL* of those politicians need to grow up. That's our money paying for their laughing schoolchild behaviour.
b***** fools.
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"b***** fools."
Yes indeed - some of the idiots even want to stay in Europe.
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And I am one of them. I want us to be in " ever closer union"
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>>Yes indeed - some of the idiots even want to stay in Europe.
It is their job to have beliefs and opinions, and to represent those of others. And they are ideally supposed to be diverse.
It is not, or should not be, their job to behave like a bunch of idiots.
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There is nothing wrong with Haywains point of view.
Haywain is entitled to his opinion.
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I made an error. Haywain might be a woman.?
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"Haywain might be a woman.?"
Having just returned from nearly 3hrs at a footy match during which time my balls were nearly frozen off, I'll have to let you know tomorrow whether I'm still a bloke or not.
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Brass monkeys here too tonight.
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Aye Corbyn is in the big league regarding tax evasion got find hundred for filling the form in late.
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>> Aye Corbyn is in the big league regarding tax evasion got find hundred for filling
>> the form in late.
Well I am not sure a bloke who can't get his tax return done in time and also misses great big chunks out, is a good advert for running a country.
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>> Well I am not sure a bloke who can't get his tax return done in
>> time and also misses great big chunks out, is a good advert for running a
>> country.
>>
Do you not feel slightly sorry for him? He's so out of his depth.
There he was getting his teeth into Dave, who seemed to be prevaricating about his father's business dealings.. only to find that Dave hadn't in fact done anything wrong and the offshore account is just like a normal hedge fund...
.... and then Jeremy's own tax affairs are a balls up.
Unbelievable.
Last edited by: Westpig on Tue 12 Apr 16 at 18:16
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>> Well I am not sure a bloke who can't get his tax return done in time and also misses great big chunks out, is a good advert for running a country.
Have a heart Zero. Anyone whose mind is on higher things can easily run up a few 100 quid fines for late returns. Trouble with you practical cats is that you don't understand how phenomenally thick and idle the rest of us are.
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He also managed to miss off his council pension.
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I would rather owe £100 than have an offshore fund.
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>> I would rather owe £100 than have an offshore fund.
>>
You for real ?
Last edited by: Skip on Tue 12 Apr 16 at 19:04
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Thanks CGNorwich for your support.
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I'm sorry "Fluffy".. You are an amusing creation although perhaps the joke is now wearing a little thin. Perhaps it's time for a reincarnation or a reversion to your former self.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 12 Apr 16 at 19:30
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>> I'm sorry "Fluffy".. You are an amusing creation although perhaps the joke is now wearing
>> a little thin. Perhaps it's time for a reincarnation or a reversion to your former
>> self.
OMG! CGN has done a dot flounce.
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The fine is only a £100.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36034657
Seems a bit of house cleaning is in order.
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Jeremy has gone off on a number matters on the wrong foot - Privy Council, bowing to the Queen, wearing a dinner suit at functions etc etc
Of the important matters for all Governments of all varieties is that they can be believed and probably No 1 is the economy.
Jeremy has apparently bowled along for all of his life following his beliefs irrespective of what others say or do.
Last week they jumped on Cameron for having money from his father who had money/shares abroad - no different really from your friend or neighbour with a flat in Spain. You do not rise matters if your own finances are not squeaky clean - turns out he was late in returning the paperwork, it was untidy in the extreme and he missed out his OAP & a pension from a past Local Authority employer. £6,000 OAP @ 40% = £2400+ in tax underpayment.
If Jeremy wants to win in 2020 he needs to smarten up and look like a leader rather than the semi tramp who is only interested in his "own left wing version of heaven" and to hell with anyone who differs.
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Long live Corbyn. The Tories' greatest asset.
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Jeremy Corbyn's OK, old labour updated a bit.
Gets my vote anyway willy-nilly. It's cold out on the left wing. They need encouragement.
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I wonder who those llamas would have voted for, had they received their ballot paper?
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Llamas or Lamas MS?
I don't think llamas have the vote anywhere. And Lamas, come to think of it, have their minds on higher things.
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No, definitely llamas. There was an article in the grauniad I think, where a Tory had submitted two applications to vote from his pet llamas. I remember my missus pointing it out to me.
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>>I wonder who those llamas would have voted for, had they received their ballot paper?
I pass a herd? of llamas on my tri-weekly walk so I'll ask them if they are out tomorrow.
Um, I think they could be alpacas actually.
Last edited by: Dog on Wed 13 Apr 16 at 20:47
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>> >>I wonder who those llamas would have voted for, had they received their ballot paper?
>>
>> I pass a herd? of llamas on my tri-weekly walk so I'll ask them if
>> they are out tomorrow.
>>
>> Um, I think they could be alpacas actually.
If they are Llamas they will be big and spit at you, if they are Alpacas they will be smaller and might not spit at you.
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I'll have to take some pics next time I see them - I bought what I think is an ideal travel camera to carry about with me on my excursions. 30 x optical zoom. Leica lens, and a viewfinder for those Sunni days in Cornwall between the 31st of July and the 1st of August.
news.panasonic.co.uk/pressreleases/the-new-lumix-dmc-tz80-a-new-perspective-for-travel-photography-1286134
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Nice Link Doggo to the noo camera, but read the blurb, a couple of Howlers in there. Poxy P(r)oof readers should be shot.
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>> Jeremy has gone off on a number matters on the wrong foot - Privy Council,
>> bowing to the Queen, wearing a dinner suit at functions etc etc
Right foot. :-)
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Cameron must be worried that he won't survive until the next election.
Corbyn, that is.
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For me Corbyn is unelectable.
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>> For me Corbyn is unelectable.
>>
Labour elected him Leader so he is electable... (by people who believe in magic money trees)
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A General Election will decide Corbyn fate.
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He will be gone before the next election, I would bet a lot of money on that.
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>> He will be gone before the next election, I would bet a lot of money on that.
To be replaced by a good, conservative sort of socialist leader no doubt. No room for lefties in whassername's Britain, oh no.
Raaaaaaas.... Tsk, honestly.
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Definitely no lefties needed.
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If Labour had gone to the Centre then I would have had no doubt the Government would have feared the consequence.
Corbyn is easy meat for Cameron.
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Cameron needs to go easy on him if he wants him to be around come election time.
However I don't think that would be enough. His own side will knife him long before then.
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I watched the results of the Labour election last summer and the expression on Burnham's face said it all. I don't think he was so much disappointed to have lost but more what it meant to the Labour party. There must be many in the Labour party, the modernisers, the Blairites called them what you will, who must be almost paralysed with disbelief at what has happened.
The tragedy is I strongly believe that any democracy needs a strong opposition. It doesn't look like it's going to come from Labour. Meanwhile the Libdems have been more or less wiped out leaving the centre ground up for grabs. A once-in-a-generation opportunity for Labour to position itself at the centre has been completely squandered.
And no-one can blame those llamas!
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If the Conservatives move to the Centre ground and stick there, they will win over 400 seats in the House of Commons.
The biggest gains will be in Birmingham and other central and southern cities and towns.
In 1983 Conservative Party won Manchester Withington.
That city speaks for itself.
Last year out of 93 councillors in Manchester all of them where won by Labour.
So 93 out of 93.
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>>>>
>> However I don't think that would be enough. His own side will knife him long
>> before then.
>>
They don't need to, he's standing down before the next election.
I wouldn't write Corbyn off completely, if the economy stuffs up he'll benefit. Elections are for the government to lose and no one can predict the state of either party after the EU vote.
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I think he (Manatee) was referring to Corbyn rather than Cameron. That's how I read it anyway.
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The E.U. referendum will define British politics for the next 50 years.
If the British vote No the Labour Party will not exist.
The split will be on the Left and not the Right.
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Corbyn is over the place. No need to attack him, it's tragic.
His credibility in supporting the Remain case is questionable; he has a track record of attacking the EU for a lack of accountability and democracy, which might explain why he came across today as half hearted.
His arguments were basically that it is rubbish, but we have to stay in it to try and fix it, and if we leave then the Tories will crush the workers. Not exactly selling the benefits to us.
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Thank you.
You have said what I thought.
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>> He will be gone before the next election, I would bet a lot of money
>> on that.
>>
Go on then, nothing stopping you.
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The Labour Party have no mechanism for removing a Leader. The members support Corbyn overwhelmingly.
He has promiosed a shower of money financed by borrowing and higher taxes - designed to employ more civil servants.. What more can lefties want when they don't do economics? :-)
Corbyn: the man who criticises Cameron for tax avoidance (none found) but who sends his own tax return in six months late and is fined £100.
Man's an incompetent muppet based on his own inactions. Ideally suited to his supporters.
Last edited by: madf on Fri 15 Apr 16 at 13:06
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He was only a week late wasn't he? And if he wasn't so useless he would have pointed out that it must be better to pay the right amount of tax a few days late than to pay on time having avoided great chunks of it by means for which the legislation was not designed.*
*(this is the difference between 'avoiding' tax by using an ISA, which was foreseen and intended by the government, and e.g. using a network of foreign registered companies to minimise your tax 'legally' - R Branson et al take note).
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>>He was only a week late wasn't he?
Paper submissions on tax 31st Oct
On-line submission 31st Jan
He was 3 months & 7 days late - with errors.
Omitted £6,000 OAP = £2400 tax to be paid & his Local Authority Pension from employment from 60's to 80's (although taxed 40% aat source = no underpayment).
Apart from that his homework was late and not the required standard - 3/10 and a dressing down @ PMQs - previous week he mocked others who had paid tax on time.
Basic error make sure your own backyard is clear before criticising others. Just emphasised the fact that he has trod the same path for all his life and paid attention to nothing else in "the real world" outside of his left wing views of politics - & paid handsomely for his 33 years as an MP.
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>> He was only a week late wasn't he? And if he wasn't so useless he
>> would have pointed out that it must be better to pay the right amount of
>> tax a few days late than to pay on time having avoided great chunks of
>> it by means for which the legislation was not designed.*
>>
>> *(this is the difference between 'avoiding' tax by using an ISA, which was foreseen and
>> intended by the government, and e.g. using a network of foreign registered companies to minimise
>> your tax 'legally' - R Branson et al take note).
>>
Yes those nasty Tories Robert Maxwell and Tony Blair set such bad examples...
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Tony Blair a " Conservative " never.
I have got something wrong.
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Blair has always been a Tory in disguise.
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Tony Blair was the best " Conservative " Prime Minister the Conservatives Party never had.
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Corbym is to the Left what Blair was to the Centre Right.
Both as phony as hell.
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"Corbym is to the Left what Blair was to the Centre Right.
Both as phony as hell."
I'm afraid I don't agree. I think Corbyn is probably genuine in what he believes, but that won't win a General Election for Labour. Nor will his patently obvious lack of leadership.
The only thing keeping him going is the fervour of his supporters - those who got him elected as leader - and the members of Momentum.
It is a wretched state of affairs, which has led to insufficient challenge of the Government's policies and decisions and the country suffers because of it.
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Corbyn has vacated the Centre Ground to the Conservatives.
The Labour Party will be lucky to have 200 seats in the House of Commons.
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>>It is a wretched state of affairs, which has led to insufficient challenge of the Government's policies and decisions and the country suffers because of it.
Totally agree. A good democracy needs a strong Opposition.
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Cameron wins every time at Question Time.
No wonder the Conservatives are laughing.
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>> Cameron wins every time at Question Time.
>>
But watch closely at how he handles those questions and you can get a very good insight into what type of a person he is and what makes him tick.
Pat
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But watch closely at how he handles those questions and you can get a very
>> good insight into what type of a person he is and what makes him tick.
And what what sort of person do you think he is from watching him?
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For me, he isn't controlled enough and let's his good judgement be marred by his temper.
He seems to ignore his advisors or if not, needs to sack them and give the job to some better ones.
Not the sort of person I want with his hand hovering over a big red button or making a snap decision which could affect us all.
For me someone in his position needs to be calm, unruffled, very considered and able to put their own feelings aside and listen to others opinions and advice.
Not much to ask, is it?
Pat
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I'm not a seasoned observer of pmqs, but is so much weighting given to a 20 min a week 'performance'?
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>> For me, he isn't controlled enough and let's his good judgement be marred by his
>> temper.
Respected political commentators and people who've been on the inside say much the same Pat. He apparently 'loses it' quite quickly and dramatically. Attempts by IDS to discuss his resignation were apparently met with an obscenity laden tirade.
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Might well get to them after so long, the last PM was frequently said to have a terrible temper. And he was there less time than the current one.
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>> Attempts by IDS to discuss his resignation
>> were apparently met with an obscenity laden tirade.
I thought we were talking about Jeremy Corbyn. Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Why would IDS be discussing resignation with JC?
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>> I thought we were talking about Jeremy Corbyn. Have I got the wrong end of
>> the stick? Why would IDS be discussing resignation with JC?
It's a follow-on from Pat's reply to fluffy's "Cameron wins every time at Question Time".
Last edited by: Focusless on Tue 19 Apr 16 at 09:06
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I'm not sure if he does fluffy.Cameron is sharp no doubt about that.When Dennis Skinner speaks he looks uncomfortable to me.
His face becomes a grimas.I'm not sure if Corbyn has a temper Cameron has unless he fakes it.
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>> Corbym is to the Left what Blair was to the Centre Right.
>>
>> Both as phony as hell.
>>
Corbyn may well be a rubbish politician and/or party leader, but he's not phony.
Which is, in any case, a pretty rich accusation coming from you.
By what criteria do you judge him to be phony.
Please explain.
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I think Corbyn has stuck to the same path for the whole of his life. A fact everyone agrees on is that he cares nought for "the way things are normally done" and ploughs his own furrow.
He truly believes his lefty policies & views are the way to go. He has a large number of highly active supporters both at Constituency level & Unions - After all they were the ones who managed to get him elected as the Labour Leader.
HOWEVER, they number 10's of thousands (or may be 6 figures) and the 2020 Election will be decided by the UK Voters who will probably congregate around the centre right .
However he may never see 2020 as the leader - failing badly at Euro / Local Elections could see the right flank of Labour ousting him well before 2020 - watch for the next 12-18 months.
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However he may never see 2020 as the leader - failing badly at Euro /
>> Local Elections could see the right flank of Labour ousting him well before 2020 -
>> watch for the next 12-18 months.
Not an expert, but I think it's quite difficult for a labour leader to be chucked out.
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>> Not an expert, but I think it's quite difficult for a labour leader to be
>> chucked out.
>>
Nor am I, it seems to be amazing what politicians can do when their jobs are at risk.
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>> Not an expert, but I think it's quite difficult for a labour leader to be
>> chucked out.
It is now. There is a serious risk that an election under the current rules could see Corbyn re-elected with a bigger mandate.
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That means it will be longer until Labour wins an election.
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It is now. There is a serious risk that an election under the current rules
>> could see Corbyn re-elected with a bigger mandate.
>>
>>
Cheers, on current performance it looks like it might well be the turkeys voting for Christmas.
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............. and Jeremy and his mates are a bunch of racists?
As Brompt would say 'oodathortit'
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Andrew Neil had a go at Ken Livingstone.Don't know really what he was trying to achieve but he did a good job Ken was digging a hole for himself talking about Hitler and what not.
Jeremy a rascist? Somebody is scared of labour spinning this yarn.
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Westpig of this parish has referred in past to people 'playing the racist card'. There are a few folks around in UK who's response to any criticism of the state of Israel is to play the antisemitism card. Equally there are a few genuine anti-Semites supporting the Palestinian cause.
Livingstone is a fool. Even if what he said about Hitler's early courting of Zionists is true it has, given the subsequent history, no place in any discussion about Zionism or the Israel/Palestine question in the 21st Century.
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The Jews are not angels the way they have delt with the Palestian people's plight.
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>> Livingstone is a fool. Even if what he said about Hitler's early courting of Zionists is true it has, given the subsequent history, no place in any discussion about Zionism or the Israel/Palestine question in the 21st Century.
Very inclined to speak off the cuff, without sufficient thought. He's not a fool though.
Anything and everything marginally sensible can be and should be said about these matters. We aren't children after all. Just not by Ken Livingstone if possible. He's too careless.
Of course his permissive attitude to Palestinian militancy is more or less correct. Most of the mass media project a sort of muffled hard-Zionist line which needs to be curbed.
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>> Westpig of this parish has referred in past to people 'playing the racist card'. There
>> are a few folks around in UK who's response to any criticism of the state
>> of Israel is to play the antisemitism card. Equally there are a few genuine anti-Semites
>> supporting the Palestinian cause.
I'd agree with that.
What's more important though, is Ken Livingstone (and others) an Anti- Semite?
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He's just a mouthy little git. Unelected so who cares really. Like Corbyn he's metropolitan and knows nothing much about the real world outside the M25 - Cappuccino Socialists...
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For me Corbyn is unelectable.
He has given the Conservative Party the entire centre ground.
Cameron even has the support of the Trade Unions over the E.U referendum.
What more could you say.
Corbyn is basically Hard Left.
Cameron is compassionat conservativism ( note the small c )
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Cameron is not a Conservative. (Heir to Blair and all that)
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Of course he is a Conservative.
He is actually in a long line of moderate one nation conservatism that has long dominated English politics. New Labour was very much a move to the centre ground by Labour because Tony Blair knew that is where you have to be if you want win elections, not on the loony fringes to the right or the left.
The English are by and large a conservative nation mostly moderate in their views.
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>> What's more important though, is Ken Livingstone (and others) an Anti- Semite?
No. I don't think Livingstone is an anti-semite. The recent episode though is not the first time he's been in hot water over silly remarks and Jewish people. He came close to losing office as Mayor after asking a reporter who was doorstepping him "What did you do before? Were you a German war criminal?" The reporter, Oliver Finegold of the Daily Mail group is Jewish, a fact Livingstone knew or should have known.
Case about bringing his office into disrepute went as far as the High Court.
Neither have I seen any evidence to suggest any anti-semitism by any other mainstream Labour politician. Zac Goldsmith is engaged in 'dog whistling' campaign about his London Mayoral opponent Sadiq Khan but none of the mud is sticking. Turns out the 'ISIS sympathiser' Khan is accused of sharing a platform with has also been pictured with Goldsmith and has links to the Tories!!
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I have never seen any evidence the Livingstone is racist, but he is in many ways being hoist with his own petard. For years the left, of which he is a prominent member, have scrutinised their opponents for all sorts of ridiculous indicators of racism from "Body language" to entirely innocent comments by someone. People who do that can hardly complain when it comes back to bite them when at some point in the future they open their mouths without engaging the brain.
We all do that from time to time, but in this case I have no sympathy for him and he is getting what he deserves.
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It's perfectly possible to convey racism in any form of language, including body language. Whether the well publicised incident at Sudbury Primary School (where, incidentally I first met Mrs B*) was such a case is a different question.
I'm far more interested in identifying any real examples of Anti Semitism than whether previous behaviour by 'the left' justifies Ken getting his bum bitten.
*not childhood sweethearts, the YHA group hired the place every Thursday night.
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Whether
>> the well publicised incident at Sudbury Primary School (where, incidentally I first met Mrs B*)
>> was such a case is a different question.
>
nothing springs to mind?
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>> nothing springs to mind?
It was years ago Sooty - late eighties?.
IIRC the head of the school was interviewing job candidates. Accusations were made that she showed prejudice against a BEM (Asian I think) candidate. The acts alleged included 'racist body language' - looking at her watch amongst other things. It dragged out over some time and I think ended the woman's career.
Sticks in my mind 'cos I had a local connection at time and assumed that was what Ro'R alluded to.
Cannot find any report on a quick google now.
NB Sudbury, Wembley; London Borough of Brent. Not the place in Suffolk.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 30 Apr 16 at 12:20
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>> >>
>> Sticks in my mind 'cos I had a local connection at time and assumed that
>> was what Ro'R alluded to.
>>
>>>>
It was not a reference to any particular incident.
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> It was years ago Sooty - late 80s
>> Cannot find any report on a quick google now.
>>
>> NB Sudbury, Wembley; London Borough of Brent. Not the place in Suffolk.
>>
No not ringing any bells at all.
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It started to niggle me that I couldn't recall more detail.
The year was 1986 and the lady's name was Maureen McGoldrick. The initial offence was apparently that she allegedly made a racist remark to an official in the Council's Education remark. Either the racist body language was a subsidiary charge or I'm conflating two different incidents. It was big news at the time largely because the right wing and press sought to portray it as PC gone mad.
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Racist body language? Sounds like a witch hunt looking for a victim to me.
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>> Racist body language? Sounds like a witch hunt looking for a victim to me.
Of course it has the potential to be used that way. Two points occur though.
Firstly there are forms of body language which can discomfit anyone. Any half decent interview training will point these out. Sitting with arms folded is one example, repeated clockwatching another. They can be used, either deliberately or unconsciously, to discriminate by race, gender or any other protected characteristic.
Secondly, there are some forms of body language which are regarded as absolutely normal in the Anglo Saxon world but which are perceived differently in other cultures. Prolonged eye contact is one example. Anglos might regard somebody avoiding eye contact as 'shifty' but in other cultures it's a courtesy, particularly (IIRC) between people where one is socially or professionally subservient to the other.
Even within Europe hand gestures have widely differing interpretations!!!
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I take some of your point, but.....
>>Secondly, there are some forms of body language which are regarded as absolutely normal in the Anglo Saxon world but which are perceived differently in other cultures
And in the UK the standard, from which deviation would be remarkable, is the "Anglo Saxon" approach, surely? Not that I am entirely sure I know what is meant by "Anglo Saxon", but going with the term as you used it anyway.
I am very much for sensitivity, but we cannot start going after "anglo saxon" people in an anglo saxon country behaving in an anglo saxon way because it might upset someone from abroad.
I would hope the Anglo Saxon person would be polite and sensitive, but being rude and insensitive should not be a criminal offence.
Now if they are doing it o deliberately discriminate, then perhaps. But just because someone else doesn;t like it?
Like I said, a witch hunt looking for a victim, which seems so often to be driven by the left wing members of society. Were they all trained at the "Mary Whitehouse School for finding offence on others' behalf"?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 30 Apr 16 at 14:45
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>> And in the UK the standard, from which deviation would be remarkable, is the "Anglo
>> Saxon" approach, surely? Not that I am entirely sure I know what is meant by
>> "Anglo Saxon", but going with the term as you used it anyway.
>>
>> I am very much for sensitivity, but we cannot start going after "anglo saxon" people
>> in an anglo saxon
I used Anglo Saxon because I wanted to go wider than British but Western wasn't necessarily right as there is an 'even within Europe' point too. Sorry if it didn't work.
My point is simply that the UK is culturally and racially diverse and organisations, particularly public bodies, should ensure their staff act in a way that recognises that. Being rude and insensitive in a way that sets out to discriminate is quite rightly a criminal offence. Organisationally, failing to ensure you don't have or even inadvertently tolerate, practices that or can be perceived as racist is going to be trouble too. As the Metropolitan Police found out through the MacPherson report.
And whatever over enthusiasm 'the left' has brought to these matters far too much progressive legislation was opposed by the right. Even now, and I accept Cameron himself is committedly liberal on social matters, there are still people on the government benches who voted against a common age of consent and for retention of 'Section 28'.
Cliff, of course I recognise that this is not a binary issue and if not quite nothing then very little is going to be automatically racist. But 'racist body language' isn't something that can be dismissed like Baa White Sheep and coffee without milk (rather than black) as PC nonsense.
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>> >
>> They can be used, either deliberately or unconsciously, to discriminate by race, gender or any
>> other protected characteristic.
>>
Can be, but can also be used to indicate any manner of other arguments where the user wants to convey contempt, boredom, frustrated disagreement, or simply has a train to catch.
It's ridiculous to label them as essentially discriminatory gestures, racist or otherwise. Rude disagreement isn't discrimination.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Sat 30 Apr 16 at 15:02
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Secondly, there are some forms of body language which are regarded as absolutely normal in
>> the Anglo Saxon world but which are perceived differently in other cultures. Prolonged eye contact
>> is one example. Anglos might regard somebody avoiding eye contact as 'shifty' but in other
>> cultures it's a courtesy, particularly (IIRC) between people where one is socially or professionally subservient
>> to the other.
what cultures were you thinking of?
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Anglo Saxons where tribes from Germany.Prolonged eye contact is looking for trouble.
I did see the interview with Ken Livingstone by Andrew Neil.Andrew was winding him up and Ken getting older walked into the trap.Ken is not a rascist in my opinion just talks sometimes before he thinks.
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>> Anglo Saxons where tribes from Germany.Prolonged eye contact is looking for trouble.
>>
>> I did see the interview with Ken Livingstone by Andrew Neil.Andrew was winding him up
>> and Ken getting older walked into the trap.Ken is not a rascist in my opinion
>> just talks sometimes before he thinks.
>>
>>
>>
Ahh the excuse of the Un PC: I just talked without thinking...
Ken is being hoist with his own petard.. I have as much sympathy for him as for Farage being called a racist.
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>> what cultures were you thinking of?
The one I had in mind was West African, based on conversations with a former colleague of Nigerian heritage. Although she wore the Hijab and traditional dress she was in many ways, including correctly interpreting colleagues' eye contact quite anglicised. An interesting conversation with somebody who didn't often open up.
Nigeria of course is itself a diverse place and she may have meant one culture there, not a universal view. I'd heard same thing before though.
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Ken Livingstone was sorry that people were offended and not for what he said. Arrogant really.
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Ah right, never been to west africa, I didn't know they had an issue with eye contact.
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I have. There seems to be a view that whites have a particularly threatening stare.
Never noticed anything where men were concerned, but I was once, when rather drunk, looking without any special concupiscence at a dancing girl, a sort of abstracted unfocused stare.
She became what they call 'uncomfortable' and gave me a bit of an earful. You don't get to be a West African dancing girl without learning how to defend yourself.
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>> She became what they call 'uncomfortable' and gave me a bit of an earful. You don't get to be a West African dancing girl without learning how to defend yourself.
I meant to add that prolonged eye contact is often risky (see Dutchie's Germanic-tribes post a long way up from here).
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>> (see Dutchie's Germanic-tribes post a long way up from here).
Not a long way up at all, just above here, duh...
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>> looking without any special concupiscence at a dancing girl, a sort of abstracted unfocused stare.
Thinking about something entirely different, mind 3,000 miles away. But the deadly white man's unfocused look upset the poor girl.
One wasn't always at one's best in those parts. One had only oneself to blame though.
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It is fascinating to see sniffers discussing the finer points of sniffery. This would have been a good subject for the 'Not the Nine o Clock News' team to cover.
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Ayup - I'm gorra frownie!
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>> Firstly there are forms of body language which can discomfit anyone. Any half decent interview
>> training will point these out. Sitting with arms folded is one example, repeated clockwatching another.
So, if I were to interview someone and use 'unfortunate body language' e.g. looked at my watch if I thought they were talking s***e.... then if that interviewee happened to be BEM, then my actions are racist?
... and 'not' presumably if the interviewee was 'anglo saxon'?
Bearing in mind I could be utterly oblivious to this and not even realise i'd looked at my watch.
It would get a tad confusing if a BEM work colleague did the next interview and employed his/her own unfortunate body language. Presumably the 'anglo saxon' interviewee could have a moan then.
I think this is a 'sniff too far'.
Last edited by: Westpig on Sun 1 May 16 at 20:54
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>> So, if I were to interview someone and use 'unfortunate body language' e.g. looked at
>> my watch if I thought they were talking s***e.... then if that interviewee happened to
>> be BEM, then my actions are racist?
Automatically racist? Of course not, that would be absurd. OTOH the interviewer might be a person of less moderate and liberal views than you. Perhaps he's convinced himself that ANY candidate from say a West African background talks s***e and is probably a fraudster too. He uses the 'unfortunate body language' solely with candidates from that background so as to dispose of then as quickly as possible.
A candidate complains on basis he's being subjected to that treatment because of his race.
As a minimum, some sort of investigation is warranted.
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>>As a minimum, some sort of investigation is warranted.
And then by the second or third time some fool decides there's no smoke without fire and there's a "whiff" of something and a career is needlessly ruined.
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Seek and ye shall find, that's the problem with sniffery.
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>> Seek and ye shall find, that's the problem with sniffery.
For clarity, I pursued the issue of racist body language because a post upthread seemed to imply it was a an absurdity invented by 'the left' in the name of so called Political Correctness. I'm not saying it is or ever was commonplace. Probability that it did and does exist as an aspect of well founded claims seemed to be a credible alternative view.
And if you don't 'watch out for' you'll go back to the previous situation where racism in many went on in plain view but was ignored and or denied.
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I dread what is going to happen to Labour on 5th May 2016.
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>> I dread what is going to happen to Labour on 5th May 2016.
How many places up for election in your neck of the woods Fluffy? Is it normally a swing area or one of those places where a monkey with a blue or red rosette (delete as appropriate) would be elected?
Here in South Northants it's only the Police and Crime Commissioner. Turnout unlikely to exceed the 20% last time.
The Tory incumbent is standing down but it'll be a shock result if the winner is not from same party. We had an independent candidate four years ago. This year it's just political placement.
The London mayoral result will be interesting. Sadiq Khan should win but may be blown off course by the Livingstone tomfoolery. The campaign fought by his opponent Goldsmith deserves investigation and condemnation for constant use of the race card/dogwhistle but only the Guardian has the appetite unless the Standard has suddne conversion.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 2 May 16 at 08:19
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"Here it's only the Police and Crime Commissioner. Turnout unlikely to exceed the 20% last time. "
I was wondering if anyone would notice that there's a PCC election on Thursday. Here we have 5 candidates, all declaring their political allegiances; I can't really see what relevance this should have to a police force. Mmm - I can imagine the green candidate demanding better tended window-boxes down at the police station.
For the polling area that I work, there is only the PCC election taking place and I will be fascinated to compare the turn-out with last time i.e. the first elections for a PCC. Last time we had 32 voters all day through our polling station - which translates to about an 11% turnout (ignoring the postal voters).
I think we'll be lucky to see 2 dozen this time.
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>> I was wondering if anyone would notice that there's a PCC election on Thursday.
The only alert I'd had was arrival of the polling card. No leaflets or anything, though IIRC Mrs B got something from Labour as she's a member.
Just three candidates, Lab, Con and a Kipper. The latter is an ex Constable from the Met and town Councillor in Burton Latimer. Labour is a Unite official and the Tory a businessman. Outgoing incumbent was youngest PCC elected last time round and seems to have been involved in controversy over move of Police HQ an transfer of previous premises at Wooton Hall to a 'free school'.
Will be interesting to talk to the poll clerks about turnout in village. Probably around 2.5k electors of whom less than 500 will vote.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 2 May 16 at 08:53
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Having had a look its the same here, just the PCC election. there's an independent doing it at the moment, and he's not standing again.
Choices are ukip/con/lab/ind, I've had a look at their statements, I think they've just copy and pasted each others.
Turnout last time was about 16%
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>> Choices are ukip/con/lab/ind, I've had a look at their statements, I think they've just copy
>> and pasted each others.
Ours too.
All propose the policing equivalent of motherhood and apple pie.
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I'm surprised the ind won last time. It's con land through and through, doing a little reading this area has had a con mp since, i think, they allowed voting.
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Just looked it up, Wiki tells me we've had a con mp for 146 out of the last 148 years.
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>> All propose the policing equivalent of motherhood and apple pie.
Ditto, except we have one who's standing on a get-rid-of-police-commissioners manifesto as well as being in favour of M & AP.
We've already voted.
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>> The only alert I'd had was arrival of the polling card. No leaflets or anything,
Same here. So about a month ago I tried looking them up on the 'net...nothing. There's Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, Ukip and 2 x Ind.
Then eventually I found brief statements they'd all put out:
Labour looked impressive, ex Commodore from the navy... however i'm not voting Labour. Although the candidate looked good, i'm unsure how much control the party would have on him and whether he'd buckle to interference.
Lib Dem looked distinctly average... and well, they're a non entity... so that's a 'no', despite him being an ex Lib Dem MP.
Tory. She had the most bland statement you could imagine, it didn't really say anything. It seemed to me there was a load missing and she was trying it on. I eventually read a piece in a local paper which provided more info... and it turns out she was the election agent for the Torbay Tory MP... so she was economical with the truth in her statement (didn't mention the election agent bit) and I have doubts as to her 'extensive business knowledge' and 'previous working with the police' (as she didn't explain them)... so she's a definite 'no', despite her being part of my 'usual team'.
Ind 1... highlighted his Christian faith, so 'no'.
Ind 2... ex Chief Supt in Devon and Cornwall police....doesn't agree with PCC set up and wishes it abolished.
UKIP... ex D&C Constable...with similar views to Ind 2, plus thinks the old police authority system should be brought back, with the same powers as PCC system.
I seriously considered not voting at all... but deep down think people should vote.
I don't think the police should be politically controlled, so therefore Ind 2 and UKIP look good... however, if there is to be political control, I'd rather the blue team have it than the red team and would me (and others) failing to vote blue help the reds?
I'm not prepared to vote blue this time because of the very poor candidate info and potential for subterfuge... but could I bring myself to vote red, for the good candidate, despite my intense dislike of their general policies?
My postal vote ended up with UKIP as vote 1 and Ind 2 as vote 2... as police independence topped my views.
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>> I don't think the police should be politically controlled,
>>
>> My postal vote ended up with UKIP as vote 1 and Ind 2 as vote
>> 2... as police independence topped my views.
>>
>>
Not criticising, but you voted for a party candidate but don't think they shouldn't politically controlled?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 2 May 16 at 11:16
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>> Not criticising, but you voted for a party candidate but don't think they shouldn't politically
>> controlled?
Have a read:
tinyurl.com/zpl4xg9
(Devon and Cornwall PCC info, specifically relating to the UKIP candidate Jonathan Leslie Smith)
Last edited by: Westpig on Mon 2 May 16 at 14:03
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I read the link, it's a bit thin on detail, and I'm not sure it makes a great deal of sense. However the police will always be controlled by politicians it's at what level do we think is acceptable.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 2 May 16 at 14:12
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>> I read the link, it's a bit thin on detail, and I'm not sure it
>> makes a great deal of sense. However the police will always be controlled by politicians
>> it's at what level do we think is acceptable.
>>
Read the Tory one, that was a dreadful load of 'blah'.
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Read the Tory one, that was a dreadful load of 'blah'.
>>
I'm sure it is, like I said upthread all the ones in the elections round here we just a copy and paste of each others. It seems the case in most of the PCC elections.
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>> I'm sure it is, like I said upthread all the ones in the elections round
>> here we just a copy and paste of each others. It seems the case in
>> most of the PCC elections.
The PCC set up is a failed experiment. However, they'll never admit it.
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>> The PCC set up is a failed experiment. However, they'll never admit it.
>>
I don't disagree, however the candidates that are saying they are going to get rid of them are either naive or think others are. They don't hold the power to disestablish the position, I'm pretty sure you'd need a vote in HoP.
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>> They don't hold the power to
>> disestablish the position, I'm pretty sure you'd need a vote in HoP.
>>
I agree... however, it's a start.
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> I agree... however, it's a start.
>>
It is, however they've about as much of a voice as the rest of us.
I think most people aren't bothered either way, a committee or an elected post. We've got what we've got. The public is extremely disinterested in this, it'll need a change in government to change it.
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Seems odd to chose someone who either chose to avoid promotion or was not deemed suitable for promotion for 30 years for such a responsible role. I suspect he would be a bit of a fish out of water if he were to be elected.
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Labour Leader Thread Volume 10 - Roger.
