There's nothing murky about it, the leader of our country is acknowledging and stating the obvious.
Whilst it is bad that we now have to deal with it, it's good that the risk is now being discussed.
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>> There's nothing murky about it, the leader of our country is acknowledging and stating the
>> obvious.
>>
>> Whilst it is bad that we now have to deal with it, it's good that
>> the risk is now being discussed.
It was us "dealing with it" (Iraq - Afghanistan) that has given birth to the so called rise of the caliphate state.
He is trotting out the same crap that caused us to go in there and cause this s*** in the first place.
Stuff that is happening there now is no more if a threat to us than stuff that happened 40 years ago. People quickly forget the fear of being blown up by IRA bombs on the streets of London, didn't hear any crap then or now about the rise of an "evil empire"
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If I started throwing stock around a shop I would be locked up so fast my feet would not touch the ground.
Equality, I don't think so.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2726831/Police-officers-attacked-stock-thrown-Gaza-protestors-wreak-havoc-Tesco-store.html
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"If I started throwing stock around a shop I would be locked up so fast my feet would not touch the ground."
I doubt it.
You would most most likely get a police caution at most unless you make a habit of it.
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I was in Naples recently and saw a demonstration in support of Gaza. It was accompanied by Police, Caribinieri,(military police), and a discreet army presence (in armoured cars).
There was no chance of disorder or things getting out of hand.
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>> "If I started throwing stock around a shop I would be locked up so fast
>> my feet would not touch the ground."
>>
>> I doubt it.
>>
>> You would most most likely get a police caution at most unless you make a
>> habit of it.
>>
That is the problem, politically correct soft policing, magistrates, and judges.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 12:34
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The implication of your original post was that you are somehow being discriminated against.
You seem to have changed tack and prefer the approach of Italy, renowned for its lack of corruption and legal system and ability to maintain law and order.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 12:42
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I still believe that I would get lifted for trying to wreck the local Tesco and abusing the staff and customers.
It might result in a caution.
I was comparing the policing styles, I prefer the Italian version, you definitely know what you can and can't do at street level.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 12:47
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>> You seem to have changed tack and prefer the approach of Italy, renowned for its
>> lack of corruption and legal system and ability to maintain law and order.
>>
>>
Our Police are not exactly bathed in glory when it comes to the powerful, rich, and famous.
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>> Our Police are not exactly bathed in glory when it comes to the powerful, rich, and famous.
Unlike the police in more civilised countries you mean ON? I have a feeling Andrew Mitchell (to name but one) might disagree with you.
It's great fun visiting countries where the police are for sale, provided you a) have money, b) don't have the bad luck to meet an honest one and c) haven't done anything the police really disapprove of (because this criminal-fuzz business can cut both ways, geddit?)
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The UK may not be perfect, no country is but it's a hell of a lot better than most parts of the world when it come to policing and the justice system. By and large the police try to do their best. Law and order is not always best served by a heavy handed approach.
At the end of the day in the case in question order was quickly restored, there was little damage, one person was arrested and the protest action was widely condemned. Seems to me a good result
What would your prefer? Head being cracked open, a riot and the protesters gaining valuable publicity leading to more violence ?
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I must admit that sounds like the situation in Ferguson (USA) at the moment.
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I don't haveany argument with need to deal with this stuff. However, we also need to understand what motivates it and try nad remove those Western actions that feed it. Neither should it be conflated with action by conservative muslims at home seeking to create a better educational environment/outcome for their kids than the 'sink' schools to which previous generations were condemned.
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According to www.ukbabynames.com/boys/top Oliver is the top UK boys name for 2014 with 6949 names registered last year.
However, 7772 boys were named Mohammad, Muhammad or variations thereof but they don't appear in the top ten because of the different spellings.
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When I walk around the areas of London that I spent my first 20 years I rarely hear English spoken. In fact it is like visiting a foreign country and that is not because I live in Scotland.
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>> When I walk around the areas of London that I spent my first 20 years I rarely hear English spoken.
Where's that ON if you will forgive the question?
The Metropolis has seen waves of change ever since it was a large muddy village on the Thames, at the point where further upstream navigation became difficult. For much of its life it has been fed by rural immigrants from all over England and the Celtic fringes who came to work in its industries. This became a flood in the 19th century when we British established the proletariat... but all sorts of Jews, Flemings, Belgians, Frogs, Italians and so on, arriving since the middle ages and joined more recently by African and Caribbean migrants, kept on arriving and settling in this or that quarter bringing manual and industrial skills. It's always been a shifting ethnic patchwork and it still is, with the feverish swarming confusion of the huge wen it has become in the feverish swarming 21st century.
I love London and know quite a lot of it fairly well (it's damn big though). I can't think offhand of an area where foreign languages, brown faces etc. aren't commonplace in the street, and as you say there are places where they are a big majority.
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>> >> When I walk around the areas of London that I spent my first 20
>> years I rarely hear English spoken.
>>
>> Where's that ON if you will forgive the question?
Specifically Tooting, but also the surrounding areas. This area was always cosmopolitan but it seems to have changed dramatically.
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>> Specifically Tooting, but also the surrounding areas. This area was always cosmopolitan
It still was when I was a minicab driver there in the 70s, based in The Quadrant on the corner of Clapham Common North Side. Quite a few Greeks and Cypriots there at that time. They were tolerated as owner/drivers by the outfit I worked for which otherwise ran a sternly racist policy (not with punters though, although some of the other drivers were a bit careless in their language... the term 'c*** birds' surges up in memory).
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I love London too and I feel the same about cosmopolitan society. The last time I visited Scotland I had a great sense of pleasure when I saw a black face again in one of the service areas on the way back. In London, I particularly like sitting in a cafe on Walthamstow High Street, watching the people go by.
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>> When I walk around the areas of London that I spent my first 20 years
>> I rarely hear English spoken.
When I walked around the streets of london 55 years ago where I lived english wasn't the first language either.
London is and always has been (since the 1700s) a multicultural city.
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>> When I walk around the areas of London that I spent my first 20 years
>> I rarely hear English spoken. In fact it is like visiting a foreign country and
>> that is not because I live in Scotland.
In Glasgow you can hear Glaswegian spoken by Italian settlers, Sikhs, Hindus.......
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>>
>> In Glasgow you can hear Glaswegian spoken by Italian settlers, Sikhs, Hindus.......
>>
I agree, and we are better for it. But we are not outnumbered............yet.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 19:00
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Parts of the UK have a dramatically changed population.
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>> Parts of the UK have a dramatically changed population.
Everything changes.
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First time I went to London, I was surprised at how few people spoke English on the street.
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The locals must think that they are all tourists.
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Haha, I suppose I was. Only been to London twice, so nothing really to gauge it against timewise in that city, still it was surprising.
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Eventually London will become a suburb of Kabul, Baghdad, or any number of Middle Eastern or African cities. Once the immigrant voters outnumber the indigenous population your culture has gone. I am glad that I will not be around when it happens, although it seems that is already happening in the Midlands. (See the thread title).
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You do talk rubbish sometimes. London is a truly international city, one of the great cities of the world. It's cosmopolitan population makes it what it is.
When I first moved to Norfolk from East London in the seventies it was a very provincial place. There was lots of muttering from the locals about being overrun by foreigners by which they meant Londoners.
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Not rubbish but the politically incorrect truth.
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Is not London one of the richest, diverse most economically prosperous cities in the world. Does it not attract investments and talent from all over the world. Does not the cosmopolitan and diverse population have nothing to do with this? Populations change, cultures change, the world move on. Change is life, stasis is death.
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I have no problem with change, it is that it is uncontrolled and the scale of it that I do not agree with.
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>> I have no problem with change, it is that it is uncontrolled and the scale of it that I do not agree with.
It's controlled as well as it is in other democratic countries ON. No migration controls are completely hermetic, even in countries with totalitarian governments. All borders are porous to some extent.
As for the scale, that just is: nothing can alter the size of populations wanting to come here, or the numbers of individuals who try to come here by one means or another.
Reminded on line yesterday of the truck which arrived with 50-plus Chinese corpses in it. The clip said they had suffocated or frozen when the driver turned the ventilation off or something of the sort. Might he or she have done it on purpose to stop the shouting and thumping? Even if an accident, quite a thing to have on your conscience.
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If they have a conscience.
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One likes to think people like long distance truckers have consciences Fc. One hopes members of other professions have them too, even members of the (cough) security forces... They can't be bad all through...
:o}
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AC, are we talking the one on last Saturday morning at Tilbury or the one some years ago?
If it was the one last Saturday it was a 'Coolchain' container which means it was refrigerated.
The driver is responsible for the load, which is the actual container. and is sealed.
The driver cannot break the seal and is only aware of what is inside from the CMR notes which may or may not be the truth.
The driver, would have dropped this container at the docks and left it to be collected by another in the UK.
The driver of course, may have been in collusion, but then again he may not have known what it contained and turning the 'fridge unit off is quite normal during a short sea journey.
Hope this helps!
Pat
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>> the one on last Saturday morning at Tilbury or the one some years ago?
It was years ago Pat. My memory may be inaccurate, but there were many dead, all of them I think. Even if the driver didn't know they were there, if his action was what killed them he can't have felt good about it.
Perhaps one of the rare cases in which 'counselling' might have been a good idea.
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Sorry Pat
But the inmates of the lorry were discovered because of their screaming and hammering on the walls. Hard to believe it did not happen when the lorry was moving the container. Dying through lack of oxygen and cold takes hours and hours.
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madf, have you ever heard just how loud a 'fridge unit is when it's going continuously?
Pat
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I suppose it depends how many of them were banging and shouting when the driver was walking by/around the wagon.
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>> madf, have you ever heard just how loud a 'fridge unit is when it's going
>> continuously?
>>
>> Pat
>>
I used to stop for a fry-up at a lorry drivers' B & B on the Colnbrook By-pass. They had notices displayed insisting that fridge units were to be turned off at night.
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>> I used to stop for a fry-up at a lorry drivers' B & B on
>> the Colnbrook By-pass.
Still there
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Still as good too, I bet!
The way I see this is when the driver would be walking around picking up the trailer from who knows where, and dropping it in Zeebrugge, the occupants would not have wanted to be detected and would not have been distressed, so would have been quiet.
The distress was caused I presume during the 18 hours the trailer was dropped in port and at sea.
Pat
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>>
>> >> I used to stop for a fry-up at a lorry drivers' B & B
>> on
>> >> the Colnbrook By-pass.
>>
>> Still there
>>
Very convenient for the gentlemens' lap dancing club nearby!
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I was very tactfully not mentioning that Duncan!
Pat
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..
tinyurl.com/o35op5k
Another lorry stopped.. screams.
"A German lorry driver has been arrested after police found 15 illegal immigrants suffering from dehydration in the back of a container wagon in Somerset.
Police swooped at a service station near Ilminster in Devon after motorists reported hearing cries and banging coming from the back of a refrigerated lorry.
"
Last edited by: madf on Tue 19 Aug 14 at 18:24
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Actually it's rubbish ON. What makes you think a great world city like London could become 'a suburb of Kabul"?
I blame years of oxygen deprivation in a radioactive metal tube clanking along the bottom of the ocean.
The whole point about the thread title was that the mainstream (so-called moderate) Muslim majority reacted to the Islamo-fascist agenda with scorn and disgust.
Third-world people come here partly, it is said, to benefit from our good and expensive social security (long may it survive fingers crossed etc). But they also come to settle in a place with the rule of law and the sort of straightforward capitalist values they understand. It may turn out more complicated, difficult and hostile than they expect, but the die is cast and they go with it.
The system may be creaking at the seams but it's still something to be sort of proud of.
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>> Not rubbish but the politically incorrect truth.
I don't think you are a Londoner. If you were you would have been brought up in a cosmopolitan environment, with every culture on your doorstep. Sure the culture changes but it would certainly have been multi.
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>> When I first moved to Norfolk from East London in the seventies it was a
>> very provincial place. There was lots of muttering from the locals about being overrun by
>> foreigners by which they meant Londoners.
And who was (and are) displacing the Londoners?
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Nobody is displacing anybody. People move mainly for economic reasons. That's" why I moved to Norfolk and why I suspect you live where you do. People are just people. Everyone's just after the same thing a better life for themselves and their families.
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CG
You need to visit London more often.
AC and Zero
It is often difficult to see problem from within.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 20:19
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>> CG
>>
>> You need to visit London more often.
>>
>> AC and Zero
>>
>> It is often difficult to see problem from within.
We know there isn't one.
You have a strictly anti London Agenda anyway. You frequently decry and try and belittle the place in every respect and at every opportunity.
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>>
>> You have a strictly anti London Agenda anyway. You frequently decry and try and belittle
>> the place in every respect and at every opportunity.
>>
I have seen a lifetime of the changes to London, I usually visit for a week or so twice a year. Maybe you are too close to it, isolated in your leafy suburb, or are blinkered to what has happened.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 21:00
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>> >>
>> >> You have a strictly anti London Agenda anyway. You frequently decry and try and
>> belittle
>> >> the place in every respect and at every opportunity.
>> >>
>>
>> I have seen a lifetime of the changes to London, I usually visit for a
>> week or so twice a year. Maybe you are too close to it, isolated in
>> your leafy suburb, or are blinkered to what has happened.
Get out of it, I visit weekly I have family still living there. One only has to look at all your posts that state how much you hate london to know where you are coming from.
You don't have the current knowledge and you have an agenda. Need say no more.
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>> And who was (and are) displacing the Londoners?
Londoners.
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No doubt there will be a rerun of the Vikings, Romans, or some middle eastern outfit eventually.
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>>
>> >> And who was (and are) displacing the Londoners?
>>
>> Londoners.
>>
The leafy suburbs of Surrey is not London.
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>> >>
>> >> >> And who was (and are) displacing the Londoners?
>> >>
>> >> Londoners.
>> >>
>>
>> The leafy suburbs of Surrey is not London.
In what way is that relevant?
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>>
>> In what way is that relevant?
>>
You do not live in a foreign culture as I would if I returned to my original area.
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>>
>> >>
>> >> In what way is that relevant?
>> >>
>>
>> You do not live in a foreign culture as I would if I returned to
>> my original area.
If i returned to my original london area I would be returning to a multicultural area, as it was 59 years ago.
So what does leafy surrey have to do with it?
You ever considered that being an englishman you are currently an immigrant?
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 20:54
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Not yet, I was waiting for that one.:)
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>> Not yet, I was waiting for that one.:)
>>
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>> >> Not yet, I was waiting for that one.:)
>> >>
>>
On thinking, (dangerous) I must have dual nationality as all you need to be Scottish is a Scottish address. I will vote in the independence referendum and I have a UK passport which says I am a British citizen. If it all goes pear shaped up here (unlikely) I assume I will get a Scottish passport as well.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 21:25
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>>its not the change...
Multiculturalism, racial mix, whatever you want to call it can be a great asset to all of us and should be encouraged. A dynamic mix of people, genes, ideas and cultures can really improve a country.
Unfortunately it goes too far when a minority want to impose their will on the rest by using subversion, force and terror and this is what should be stopped.
(Thugs in Brick Lane stopping men and women holding hands, stopping shops and restaurants selling alcohol etc.)
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>> (Thugs in Brick Lane stopping men and women holding hands, stopping shops and restaurants selling
>> alcohol etc.)
These far right white thugs maybe?
www.london24.com/news/crime/far_right_britain_first_s_brick_lane_march_ends_in_violence_1_3613477
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>>These far right white thugs maybe?
I was thinking this lot:
www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/court-crime/thug_who_stamped_on_journalist_s_face_in_brick_lane_jailed_1_2198139
But then this isn't about taking pot-shots, its about getting rid of extremists on both sides. There are fascist white Anglo Saxons and fascist Muslims but these groups are spoiling it for everyone else and should therefore be stopped.
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 21:30
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>> Unfortunately it goes too far when a minority want to impose their will on the
>> rest by using subversion, force and terror and this is what should be stopped.
>>
>> (Thugs in Brick Lane stopping men and women holding hands, stopping shops and restaurants selling
>> alcohol etc.)
There are always a few nutters pushing the envelope. The thugs you mention were a handful of batty folks with 'converts' who, like Lee Rigby's killers, were gang member types looking for a new outlet grossly over represented.
I'll believe the 'minority imposing their will' line the day I can't get a lager with my curry.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 17 Aug 14 at 21:24
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>>
>> I'll believe the 'minority imposing their will' line the day I can't get a lager
>> with my curry.
>>
I hope you enjoyed your curry.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727281/Bin-bag-cats-heads-close-Manchesters-Curry-Mile-Urgent-inquiry-launched-sickening-discovery.html
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Like the comment
So many recipes and so few cats.
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Great place, Curry mile....speshly at Eid. Not been for a while,,,,Pussy curry sounds quite good !
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>> I hope you enjoyed your curry.
>>
>> www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727281/Bin-bag-cats-heads-close-Manchesters-Curry-Mile-Urgent-inquiry-launched-sickening-discovery.html
Even the Mail is not directly suggesting the cats were cooked. Article ends as follows (quoting the City Council):
At this stage we have no way of knowing how these animal parts came to be where they were discovered but we will be contacting the RSPCA as this is clearly an extreme example of animal cruelty
This is exactly the sort of post, taking isolated and/or extreme examples and applying them to a whole cultural group, that lay behind Mark's comments in the previous volume.
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>>There was lots of muttering from the locals about being overrun by foreigners by which they meant Londoners.
<<
In the village where I live the locals are still muttering about this, and to a point, I can see where they are coming from.
Pat
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>>
>> In the village where I live the locals are still muttering about this,
>>
In Wales it's OK to complain about incomers, talk about swamping of indigenous culture, areas where the native language is hardly spoken, and to base planning, housing allocation and employment on local connections.
It's all part of official policy, but would be absolutely unthinkable and probably illegal in England.
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and to base planning, housing allocation...but would be absolutely unthinkable and probably illegal in England.
I don't know about the rest, but that happens around where I live in this corner of England.
Btw Mods could we have another thread, it's a bit long this one.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 18 Aug 14 at 08:22
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>> Btw Mods could we have another thread, it's a bit long this one.
Done
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The problem we have is they move from London to a small village and constantly complain about lack of amenities, local people, and generally try and turn the village into something it doesn't want to be.
Pat
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People have been doing this for ever. They buy a house in Chiswick and then complain about the noise from the planes going over every couple of minutes!
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>> The problem we have is they move from London to a small village and constantly
>> complain about lack of amenities, local people, and generally try and turn the village into
>> something it doesn't want to be.
>>
>> Pat
>>
City dwellers do seem to have a problem with things even a little more rural, my B in law has difficulty with our travel plans which are basically a mile a minute. We are only 20 minutes (miles) from Edinburgh but he is amazed at the distances we drive without a thought. Having lived off this small island may be a reason for our lack of distance phobia.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 18 Aug 14 at 08:39
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>> City dwellers do seem to have a problem with things even a little more rural,
>> my B in law has difficulty with our travel plans which are basically a mile
>> a minute. We are only 20 minutes (miles) from Edinburgh but he is amazed at
>> the distances we drive without a thought. Having lived off this small island may be
>> a reason for our lack of distance phobia.
I wouldn't say that, more not really the need to travel that far, naturally if one lives in an urban area things are that much closer. No need to travel far.
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>> City dwellers do seem to have a problem with things even a little more rural
I still remember a fifties Punch cartoon of a couple of yokels confronted with two obvious extraterrestrials with suckers, trunks, all that sort of thing. One of the yokels is saying: 'Lunnon folk, I expect.'
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>> In Wales it's OK to complain about incomers, talk about swamping of indigenous culture, areas
>> where the native language is hardly spoken, and to base planning, housing allocation and employment
>> on local connections.
>> It's all part of official policy, but would be absolutely unthinkable and probably illegal in
>> England.
It's not limited to Wales is it?
The issue in the National Parks and other wild/beautiful places is economic as much as cultural. Well heeled incomers pricing people out for holiday/retirement is a different thing the constant ebb/flow of population in Inner London.
Local authorities are allowed to mitigate against that issue by, for example, making provision for housing so that locals are not forced out. Must live within n miles is also quite common for employment. Even in London it's not unknown (eg academic posts at IoE) to have such a requirement.
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>>
>>
>> It's not limited to Wales is it?
>>
>> The issue in the National Parks and other wild/beautiful places is economic as much as
>> cultural.
I meant generally, not in National Parks etc.
All housing developments in Wales have to give preference to native speakers and those with a local connection. It is official policy to deplore the development of localities where immigrant language is displacing native language and culture, and to take measures to prevent this. Job discrimination based on language is legal and encouraged.
It's not exactly celebrating the benefits of vibrant multiculturalism, more like backwoods racialism as exploited only by extremist parties in UK generally.
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Local connections always gained 'points' in housing allocation. Twelve years ago we were trying to move my Mother out Law to Northants from Staffordshire on account of her slow onset Alzheimer's.
She was initially rejected for lack of connection to the village. A carefully argued appeal pointing out the family links and her familiarity with the place as well as the absurdity of her being isolated and a drag on services in Staffs got a reversal but the thinking will still be there today.
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>> Well heeled incomers pricing people out for holiday/retirement
>>
As so often, it's a two way street. Perhaps the locals should exercise some moral self discipline and not simply accept the highest price from the highest bidder.
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OFFS. If I want to listen to s*** from UKIP I'll seek it out, in the mean time kindly warn us you are directing us to more of your lousy political propaganda
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 21 Aug 14 at 18:49
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Islamist school agenda - Westpig
