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More pedal power chat.
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Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 28 May 15 at 00:52
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One of these has just been installed locally.
It seems to be positioned so cars waiting at the lights can see nearside two wheeled creepers.
Just one mirror fitted so maybe a trial to see if anyone notices/comments ?
I have never seen cyclists at this point. Maybe they only come out at rush hour ?
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>> One of these has just been installed locally.
>> It seems to be positioned so cars waiting at the lights can see nearside two
>> wheeled creepers.
>> Just one mirror fitted so maybe a trial to see if anyone notices/comments ?
You would think that if it was fitted as a safety feature, they would tell you about it.
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>> You would think that if it was fitted as a safety feature, they would tell you about it.
>>
It is in Surbiton the land of the creeping 20mph limits so perhaps Kingston upon Thames can only find the funds for one at a cross roads and nowt for publicity.
Perhaps they plan to move around from post to post ?
They seem to have no funds for green paint for their boxes on the road ( that never get used ) or perhaps they have sussed the idea is not working ?
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My cycling commute takes me across (not round!) Hyde Park Corner. This morning the Met Police and TfL had a 3-way display on in the middle of the Corner.
1. Was info about the new Cycle Super Highway going that way.
2. Was free Bike Register security marking by the Met. (Normally £18 - thank you very much!)
3. Was the chance to sit in a large HGV artic cab (a Merc of some description) while a policeman on a bike in hi-viz manoeuvred around the cab.
This was most illuminating. When I first sat in the cab I thought I could see all around the truck using the 6 mirrors (2 o/s door, 3 n/s door and 1 out the front of the n/s windscreen). Wrong! When the bike was by the front n/s of the cab (forward of the artic's rear axle) or close in front of the cab it was completely invisible. Even when the bike was elsewhere and visible in the mirrors, without the hi-viz jacket (or similar) it is clear that the bike and rider would just merged into the tarmac.
If any other cyclists on here get a chance to have a go in the Met's truck cab I strongly recommend it. It was a real eye-opener for me. And it reminded me of what a tough job driving a large cab in urban traffic must be.
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>> If any other cyclists on here get a chance to have a go in the
>> Met's truck cab I strongly recommend it. It was a real eye-opener for me. And
>> it reminded me of what a tough job driving a large cab in urban traffic
>> must be.
>>
Agreed.
Though I also feel that a legislative change is needed that will, in the future, preclude vehicles with poor visibility from being allowed into London during peak times. Both Mercedes and Volvo have camera systems that can identify a cyclist / pedestrian near the vehicle and indicate so to the driver.
Sure, there's a cost, but equally I'm pretty sure it costs the haulage companies quite a lot of money every time they have to pay to have a cyclist scraped off their lorries.
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I know someone in the London City Police, who told me how effective that cab is at showing the diffficulties for lorry drivers. He's a cyclist himself, for leisure and at work, and he was of the opinion that the cyclist was at fault in most of the accidents, involving lorries, which he'd had to attend himself.
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Yes, I think that's right, JB. I would have thought a glazed panel in the n/s door would be a fairly simple/cheap tool to help the problem, without the expense and lead-in delays of engineering lower (refuse-truck type) cabs. Didn't BL and Ford used to make trucks with glazing in the lower part of their doors?
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>> Yes, I think that's right, JB. I would have thought a glazed panel in the
>> n/s door would be a fairly simple/cheap tool to help the problem, without the expense
>> and lead-in delays of engineering lower (refuse-truck type) cabs. Didn't BL and Ford used to
>> make trucks with glazing in the lower part of their doors?
>>
They've been tried by many manufacturers. Problem is that they rely on the driver's eye being aligned with them at the same moment as the cyclist is aligning himself in the blind spot.
All these driver aids help; but none more so than the pillock on the bike not putting himself deliberately in that blind spot in the first place.
I'm glad some of you have tried sitting in that lorry cab and been enlightened; the experience ought to be compulsory. No lorry driver wishes to deliberately kill or injure another road user despite what the pedallist propaganda may imply on occasion.
Sits back and waits for howls of protest from the Cycliosi.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Thu 23 Apr 15 at 20:22
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>> I'm glad some of you have tried sitting in that lorry cab and been
>> enlightened; the experience ought to be compulsory. No lorry driver wishes to deliberately kill or
>> injure another road user despite what the pedallist propaganda may imply on occasion.
Unfortunately though a small minority, perhaps over represented in the tip/skip trade, are reckless as to whether they kill or maim.
See Z's post above and link to ES:
www.standard.co.uk/news/london/lorry-driver-banned-from-the-roads-five-times-admits-jumping-red-light-and-killing-cyclist-10164566.html
Barry Meyer is not alone (in having a long history of bans) amongst those convicted for killing cyclists. See Denis P U T Z. Makes you wonder how many more are out there...
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>> Barry Meyer is not alone (in having a long history of bans) amongst those convicted
>> for killing cyclists. See Denis P U T Z. Makes you wonder how many more
>> are out there...
>>
Meyer might have been driving a lorry when he did that; but I'd point out that he did not have a licence to drive one. It is not clear from that report if he ever held an HGV licence but P u t z (just found out why you did that) certainly had, although it had been revoked.
The blame in both those cases rests as much with the people who employed them as HGV drivers, both of whom must have known that they were unlicensed, as with the drivers themselves. Yet, as always the rest of us who drive legitimately get tarred with the same brush.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Fri 24 Apr 15 at 00:29
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commercialmotor.com/latest-news/tipper-driver-jailed-for-3-and-a-half-ears-for-cyclist-death
Not enough in my opinion. Given his previous the driving ban should have been for life. It is however pretty certain, I would hope, that he will never hold an HGV licence again. Whether this actually stops him driving another lorry is, however, open to question. I hope the cyclists will understand that genuine HGV drivers deplore this sort of thing as much as, if not more so, than cyclists. We get enough bad press without idiots like Meyer.
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>> commercialmotor.com/latest-news/tipper-driver-jailed-for-3-and-a-half-ears-for-cyclist-death
>>
>> Not enough in my opinion. Given his previous the driving ban should have been for
>> life. It is however pretty certain, I would hope, that he will never hold an
>> HGV licence again.
Yet the real crime is not his. The real criminal behind this is the guy who gave him the keys. Why wasn't some manager in the dock along side him?
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>> Yet the real crime is not his. The real criminal behind this is the guy
>> who gave him the keys. Why wasn't some manager in the dock along side him?
>>
I'm minded to agree; in fact I mentioned this in an earlier post. It does not, however, make him any less culpable for his actions.
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>> Sits back and waits for howls of protest from the Cycliosi.
Only for the stereotyping. And lorry drivers should know how that feels.
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>> Though I also feel that a legislative change is needed that will, in the future,
>> preclude vehicles with poor visibility from being allowed into London during peak times.
Given that most cyclists only use about 180 degrees of their peripheral vision and don't use mirrors at all, I presume they'll have to walk as well then? ;-)
Your list would also have to include a goodly percentage of cars (especially supercars in Knightsbridge) and also buses because they're not much better than lorries where all round vision is concerned.
If you substitute "poor all round awareness" for "poor visiblity", the former being more pertinent surely, then pretty much nothing would move at all in London and that includes pedestrians.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Thu 23 Apr 15 at 20:34
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and also buses because they're not much better than lorries where all round vision is concerned.
I suspect from a purely visibility point of view buses are worse than lorries as they have few mirrors. They are however somewhat more predicable, and all the side is bodywork, so a collision with a cyclist is less likely to be fatal (for the cyclist).
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>> I suspect from a purely visibility point of view buses are worse than lorries as
>> they have few mirrors. They are however somewhat more predicable, and all the side is
>> bodywork, so a collision with a cyclist is less likely to be fatal (for the
>> cyclist).
>>
Fair point. I'd suggest that there are even more distractions for a bus driver; as you may know this is how my wife earns her living, personally I prefer my cargo strapped down and in a separate compartment!
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>> Given that most cyclists only use about 180 degrees of their peripheral vision and don't
>> use mirrors at all,
Mirrors aren't much use on a pushbike - too much vibration and if mounted on the bike itself they're way outside normal visual sweep. Far too much time/effort for any gain they offer over the over the shoulder 'lifesaver' plus using your ears too for all round situational awareness.
There's a guy who turns out on the Folding Society's 'Origami Rides' who has a thing like a dentist's mirror clipped to his specs. Might be a solution for those with limited neck/shoulder movement.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 23 Apr 15 at 20:47
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>>>>
>> There's a guy who turns out on the Folding Society's 'Origami Rides' who has a
>> thing like a dentist's mirror clipped to his specs. Might be a solution for those
>> with limited neck/shoulder movement.
>>
I wouldn't fancy coming off with a mirror on my head that could ram itself into my face. Ditto with helmet cams, many of those who think you're mad to ride without a helmet cheerfully stick a lump of plastic and metal on the helmet which is likely to smash through the polystyrene and straight into the skull.
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>>
>> Mirrors aren't much use on a pushbike - too much vibration and if mounted on
>> the bike itself they're way outside normal visual sweep. Far too much time/effort for any
>> gain they offer over the over the shoulder 'lifesaver' plus using your ears too for
>> all round situational awareness.
>>
No different to old motorbikes then. You and I practise the "life-saver" of course, wish it was more widely adopted because there's no doubt it really does save lives.
As to the bit about using your ears; not easy if you've got an I-pod blasting tunes into them. Do you think that use of same should be illegal on bicycles much as mobile phone use is in cars? To make it fair, perhaps their use should be banned on all wheeled vehicles. I've come across more than a few cyclists who use earbuds with their smart phones and are happily jabbering away whilst pedalling; damn dangerous IMO, too much of a distraction even "hands-free".
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>> No different to old motorbikes then. You and I practise the "life-saver" of course, wish
>> it was more widely adopted because there's no doubt it really does save lives.
It's still taught today as part of Bikeability - the modern version of Cycling Proficiency. How much does a full lid affect your vision for that sort of thing.
>> As to the bit about using your ears; not easy if you've got an
>> I-pod blasting tunes into them.
This one causes nearly as much heat on cycling fora as the helmet debate. Personal view is don't/won't. Whether it's an emergency vehicle or tailgating taxi in London or picking up a lone car at distance in local lanes I want that extra clue. Others tell me, at least in the urban environment, that needing to use my hearing is a marker for sub-standard observation.
There is also a vast difference between open earpieces and the sort that both completely block the ear canal AND actively cancel external noises.
Wouldn't use a phone for same reason but in both cases while dangerous the risk sits pretty squarely on the cyclist. The mass/momentum of a motor vehicle puts it in a different league. While there are a handful of examples of pedestrians killed/seriously injured by cyclists annually such incidents are vanishingly rare. It's doubtful, given the evidence of how effectively the ban on hand helds in cars is (not) affecting behaviour, that new legislation would help. I think there's stuff already in the legislative toolbox that can be used in the more egregious cases.
Biggest risk in city streets is pedestrians faffing with smartphones.
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>> How much does a full lid affect your vision for that sort of thing.
Rarely wear one, prefer the open face type; but in general, nowhere near as much as older designs used to.
>>
>> This one causes nearly as much heat on cycling fora as the helmet debate. Personal
>> view is don't/won't. Whether it's an emergency vehicle or tailgating taxi in London or picking
>> up a lone car at distance in local lanes I want that extra clue. Others
>> tell me, at least in the urban environment, that needing to use my hearing is
>> a marker for sub-standard observation.
>>
I'm inclined to agree with your view and suspect that theirs is code for an excuse.
>> Wouldn't use a phone for same reason but in both cases while dangerous the risk
>> sits pretty squarely on the cyclist. The mass/momentum of a motor vehicle puts it in
>> a different league. While there are a handful of examples of pedestrians killed/seriously injured by
>> cyclists annually such incidents are vanishingly rare.
Wasn't so much on about the damage cyclists do to other road users, which is obviously far less; more the fact that by using such ephemera they are putting themselves into situations which could be avoided of they were less distracted and more focused on their surroundings.
>>
>> Biggest risk in city streets is pedestrians faffing with smartphones.
>>
And generally bimbling or rushing about in their own little bubble. I really do think it's high time that certain parts of cities, where it's appropriate and possible, should introduce jaywalking fines.
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>> Your list would also have to include a goodly percentage of cars
Many modern cars suffer major blindspots.
I looked around a Pug 308 the other day, looking through the rear window I realised... I have seen bigger letterboxes....
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>> I looked around a Pug 308 the other day, looking through the rear window I
>> realised... I have seen bigger letterboxes....
Had one as courtesy car earlier in year and came to exactly same conclusion:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=17111&m=415731&v=e
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>> If any other cyclists on here get a chance to have a go in the
>> Met's truck cab I strongly recommend it.
Seconded. I sat in one of Keltbray's when a similar event was held near UCL on my then commute between Euston and Chancery Lane. As BxBoy says - illuminating.
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I would never wear ear-phones while cycling. It must be like every vehicle following you is electric - i.e. you have no idea they are there unless you turn round (or use a wobbly mirror) - scarry!
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Inventor Andrew Ritchie and current head of design Will Carlysmith write on Brompton's design and ongoing development:
www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/apr/27/how-we-made-the-brompton-folding-bicycle
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>> Daily Mail link: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3056670/Justine-Miliband-veers-right-breaks-countless-cycling-laws-process.html
FFS, haven't the Mail anything better to do.
Anyway she wears a helmet so she's 100% safe :-P
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>> Anyway she wears a helmet so she's 100% safe :-P
>>
She's married to one too.
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Who in their right mind would choose to be in public life or married to someone in public life? You would need the hide of a rhinoceros to maintain equanimity.
Sleazebags from the yellow press - and it's all yellow these days - hiding in the bog and peering up your jaxie to make moralistic comments on your diet. Tchah!
Hacks get very well paid for a photo spread like that.
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>> the hide of a rhinoceros to maintain equanimity.
>>
I didn't think she was that bad looking, AC!
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>> >> Daily Mail link: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3056670/Justine-Miliband-veers-right-breaks-countless-cycling-laws-process.html
>>
>> FFS, haven't the Mail anything better to do.
>>
>> Anyway she wears a helmet so she's 100% safe :-P
>>
I assume from your reaction that you think that it is OK for lorry drivers to act like that as long as they have hiviz and a plastic hat on.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 28 Apr 15 at 07:47
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>> >>
>> I assume from your reaction that you think that it is OK for lorry drivers
>> to act like that as long as they have hiviz and a plastic hat on.
>>
I think you missed the humour in the line you are referring to.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 28 Apr 15 at 10:30
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>> tinyurl.com/me97thc
Good piece.
Setting aside the frocks and so on, is there any comment from, say, Humph?
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I expect there are more transvestites with cars. ;-)
Good read though. Much of what he says I can relate to. Only detail he has quite wrong is that actually I invented the mountain bike two years earlier than him !
In fact there was a fashion for "customising" bikes back then from any old spare parts you could find or someone else was throwing out.
We made bikes we called "trackers" for off road use. Lowered gearing, straight bars, knobbly tyres. Primitive MTBs indeed.
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www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/47876/
IF, Mr Eakins had been in a car/truck/motorcycle, he would have been charged...
So why hasn't he?
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>> www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/47876/
>>
>> IF, Mr Eakins had been in a car/truck/motorcycle, he would have been charged...
>> So why hasn't he?
Cyclist was way out of order, not least in failing to report and render assistance. We don't know why. Is it possible he didn't realise he'd done more than clip the pedestrian until he heard about the death in the media?
In most of these cases it's an awkward fall rather than impact with the bike that causes the fatal injury to the head. Presumably the police and/or CPS deided that there was insufficient evidence in this case. I wonder what would have happened if he'd been clipped by a car.
The report of the inquest is quite short on detail so we're left speculating.
There is no cycling equivalent of 'death by dangerous'. Andrea Leadsom MP attempted to legislate for such an offence by a private members bill several years ago but failed. Her attempt followed a case in Buckingham about 10yrs ago where a teenage girl was hit by a cyclist in disputed circumstances and died. That case was taken up by the Mail and got a great deal of publicity. The cyclist was convicted of a lesser offence and, IIRC, jailed for a short period - but at the serious end of the options available to the bench.
It's the old question of whether it's worth passing laws that only get used once or twice in a decade.
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>> IF, Mr Eakins had been in a car/truck/motorcycle, he would have been charged...
>> So why hasn't he?
On reflection......
If Mr Eakins had been in a car truck etc some here would have asserted the victim's contributory negligence for not wearing hi-viz!!!
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>>some here would have asserted the victim's contributory negligence
Whereas you would have worried that he was Jewish and thus being victimised.
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That's usually easily determined through the Lycra shorts.
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I spent a bit of time last night searching for another report on this, preferably something from the time of the accident.
Zilch.
The Mail and Express picked it up but only to extent of repeating word/word the report of the inquest as in ST's OP.
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>> That's usually easily determined through the Lycra shorts.
Only if you stare closely Lygonos, although an expert eye might be a bit quicker.
A posh gentile friend who has a Jewish GF went to Israel with her for a visit.
He told me that in the showers at the swimming pool there the guys in the other stalls peered discreetly at his tackle, to see whether he'd been cut. He had, as it was fashionable when I and he were nippers.
I haven't - my mother was against it, the Maltese being particularly paranoid about any suggestion of Islam for sound historical reasons - but I feel the experience of being peered at would have made it go very small or even disappear. God knows the Muslims are quite bad enough in that way, I discovered in my travelling days.
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Continuing from earlier Cycling Corner Volumes....
A short trip but an illustration of how much the wind speed/direction affects cyclists.
Miss B is at home for a week and as she's training for Ride London in August she dragged her Mum and I out. Plan was a nice rode out to the NT place at Canons Ashby, late light lunch at the cafe, look at gardens and home again. About 8.5 miles each way.
Left home just after 13:00 into a gusting westerly breeze. Outward was really hard work. The road rolls a bit and there's a height gain of 180feet but the killer was the wind.
Took me just over an hour moving time per the GPS. Speed around 8mph
Return moving time with wind behind was 45mins. Speed 11mph.
And to add a bit of local history....
On return we stopped at the Radar Memorial gb.geoview.info/the_birth_of_radar_memorial,31924510p to prove a point.
I know full well the location was chosen for experiments to prove the radar concept because the terrain has no direct view of the former Empire Service radio transmitter site on Borough Hill at Daventry. This was key to the experiment. The signal attenuated by the terrain would be affected much more by the test aircraft than if there'd been a line of sight.
During our October break last year we visited the radar museum at Horning. Amongst the exhibits is a water colour impression of the Northants experiment showing Watson-Watt's team, the test aircraft AND the transmitter aerials at Daventry. I pointed out to the volunteer curator that perhaps the information should mention the degree of artistic licence.
He pretty well told me I was wrong. I'm now doubly clear I wasn't. The current single mast at Daventry, somewhat higher than the old lattice towers, is just visible from a mile back where the road is higher but NOT from the test site.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 11 May 15 at 20:14
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>>
>>
>> Left home just after 13:00 into a gusting westerly breeze. Outward was really hard work.
>> The road rolls a bit and there's a height gain of 180feet but the killer
>> was the wind.
>>
>>
180 ft a height gain????????????
That's no more than a hump back bridge down here man.
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>> 180 ft a height gain????????????
>>
>> That's no more than a hump back bridge down here man.
Doesn't bother me either, usually go out t hat way up the hill.
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>> Miss B is at home for a week and as she's training for Ride London
>> in August she dragged her Mum and I out. Plan was a nice rode out
>> to the NT place at Canons Ashby, late light lunch at the cafe, look at
>> gardens and home again. About 8.5 miles each way.
>>
Er, how can I put this? ... is a 17 mile ride with 180' height really much 'training' for a 100 mile ride which includes Newlands Corner, Leith Hill and Box Hill??
Good luck to your daughter, though. I've got a charity place with Arthritis Research (which I suffered from as a kid). A few if us are doing the Tour of Cambridge (7th June) which is a 80 mile ride from Peterborough (and so pretty flat - but possibly windy) and I think there are still places available if she's interested?
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>> Er, how can I put this? ... is a 17 mile ride with 180' height
>> really much 'training' for a 100 mile ride which includes Newlands Corner, Leith Hill and
>> Box Hill??
It was just an opportunity for her to get out on a bike and stretch herself a little while she's with us. A year ago I 'dropped' her regularly on family rides. This time she kept racing ahead then having to wait for me and then her Mum.
The real training is done round Cornwall and Dartmoor on her road bike and with her partner, with whom she's doing the ride, for company.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 12 May 15 at 13:24
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>> Wiggo training. Unusual view.
>>
>>
That guy was doing a respectable ride too, the difference between us ordinary riders and the pros is astonishing.
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Its all about the Marginal Gains!!
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Oi Bromp, seen these?
www.ridehelix.ca/
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 15 May 15 at 14:15
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Difficult to judge without seeing the thing in the flesh. No projected price yet, but with a titanium frame and expensive labour assembly (in Canada) it won't be cheap!
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>> Difficult to judge without seeing the thing in the flesh. No projected price yet, but
>> with a titanium frame and expensive labour assembly (in Canada) it won't be cheap!
prices are 1300 - 2000 dollars depending on spec.
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From that website....
"As you may know, Helix will be available in three specs, a single speed, 10 speed derailleur and 8 or 11 speed internal gear hub. Kickstarter pre-order pricing is as follows: single speed: $1200, 10 speed derailleur: $1300, 8 speed Alfine: $1500, 11 speed Alfine: $1700 (all prices in USD).
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Intersting piece of kit but I'm pretty confident Brompton Bicycle Co won't be getting 'frit'.
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Defend this one Bromp
tinyurl.com/q3zttfm
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 21 May 15 at 16:38
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>> Defend this one Bromp
>>
>> tinyurl.com/q3zttfm
>>
No.
Now will you stop pretending this sort of behaviour is representative?
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It is as representative as the tipper driver in London who was sentenced to imprisonment (quite rightly) this week, but always gets well reported, as though it is the normal for all lorry drivers to behave like that.
Pat
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That's a bit silly, ON.
IMO Bromp goes too far in his belief of cyclists' correctness but I've never heard him say all cyclists are angels and he'd never defend behaviour like this.
Sometimes gratuitous poking with a stick goes too far.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 21 May 15 at 16:53
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For once I agree with you Mark, but as for poking with a stick, I get that all the time and manage to cope with it so I'm sure Bromp will manage.
Pat
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Pat,
Any of us who choose to speak up for an unpopular cause whether it's cycling. lorry driving or the Labour Party gets poked with a stick. Come to think of it even the Kippers, well represented here, get poked with a stick.
And it's not just on C4P either - look at the Society, Culture and Politics thread on Cyclechat*. Welcome to forumworld.
*Actually you may not be able to as I think, unlike rest of forum, access is limited to registered users.
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I know what it's like Bromp, it wasn't a pop at you at all.
I'm just totally peeved that the bloke who *employed* the tipper driver keeps his *good repute* to continue having an Operators licence.
There is something seriously wrong there and he should be before the TC and disqualified from operating HGV's.
Pat
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>> I'm just totally peeved that the bloke who *employed* the tipper driver keeps his *good
>> repute* to continue having an Operators licence.
>>
>> There is something seriously wrong there and he should be before the TC and disqualified
>> from operating HGV's.
>>
>> Pat
I agree with you. What would be the process to get him before the TC? Could it be in train already and/or be subject to an appeal to the Upper Tribunal?
Suppose VOSA or whatever it's now called might have wanted to wait until conviction but the fact of employing unlicenced drivers would be evident irrespective.
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>> Any of us who choose to speak up for an unpopular cause whether it's cycling. lorry driving or the Labour Party gets poked with a stick. Come to think of it even the Kippers, well represented here, get poked with a stick.
I'm hurt that you didn't include drunk driving in your list Pat. An oversight I'm sure.
:o}
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No oversight AC, a man of your regular consumption must have a good margin before turning the breathalyser into manic mode!
Bromp, I suspect/hope it is in the pipeline but I will post on here if I get any wind of a TC visit.
Pat
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A little poke with a stick has produced a discussion about minority persecution on fora(ms). Without a prod occasionally this forum would have died long ago. We are all big girls and boys, I am sure the locals can handle it.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 21 May 15 at 17:53
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>> Defend this one Bromp
>>
>> tinyurl.com/q3zttfm
Well.
The 'father' is wearing a baseball cap, a vest and a tee shirt and seems to have tattoos.
Why was he at home during the day unless he is claiming benefits?
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>> Why was he at home during the day unless he is claiming benefits?
Can't decide whether you're being serious Duncan or tongue in cheek. If the former, 3 possibilities off the top of my head - on holiday, working from home, or home for lunch?
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>> >> Why was he at home during the day unless he is claiming benefits?
>>
>> Can't decide whether you're being serious Duncan or tongue in cheek. If the former, 3
>> possibilities off the top of my head - on holiday, working from home, or home
>> for lunch?
>>
I was being tongue in cheek.
However, on a serious note, I do recall some statistic or other which linked social class to road accident rates. It seems there is a correlation. I have had a quick Google, but haven't got time to study the results and find what it is that I am looking for.
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>> I was being tongue in cheek.
oops :)
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b***** idiot.
There are ways and places you can get away with jumping reds but neither apply at that site or at that speed.
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That made me laugh. Obviously buses need to be made bigger or perhaps some flashing lights!
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>> That made me laugh. Obviously buses need to be made bigger or perhaps some flashing
>> lights!
>>
No.. I have sussed it - some (many?) cyclists are colour blind....
youtu.be/PI7aKLuHK7k
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I remember those ads TG made. Very funny.
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>> >> That made me laugh. Obviously buses need to be made bigger or perhaps some
>> flashing
>> >> lights!
>> >>
>>
>> No.. I have sussed it - some (many?) cyclists are colour blind....
>>
>> youtu.be/PI7aKLuHK7k
>>
Don't understand the "cyclists run red lights" argument because I suspect that as a proportion far more drivers run the red. You only have to sit at a light controlled junction and count how many cars still go through in front of you as your light goes green.
So the true problem is a lack of enforcement, not cyclists in general.
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>> Don't understand the "cyclists run red lights" argument because I suspect that as a proportion
>> far more drivers run the red.
That's exactly my observation FF. The lights at the junction of Great George St and Parliament Sq were, and no doubt still are, particularly bad for it - cars, taxis and buses all. You can see it anywhere and everywhere though - does anybody still stop at amber? The offence is committed at speed on a wing and a prayer.
Cyclists OTOH tend to be creeping through kerbside (a manoeuvre that's permitted in many jurisdictions) or taking advantage of over long all red phases. In some cases slightly anticipating the green is best way to mitigate for poor and even dangerous junction design.
Excepting the mitigating circumstance I gave up doing it myself ten or more years ago.
The main offence committed by those who still do is one of 'bringing the game into disrepute'. The danger is vastly exaggerated.
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While this attitude exists the tally of cyclists dying in London will never improve.
I really cannot believe it.
Pat
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>> While this attitude exists the tally of cyclists dying in London will never improve.
Serious question Pat, how many of the tally in say last five years have been down to red light jumping?
There are lots of things that might improve cycle safety in London but tighter enforcement of current red lights isn't in the top 10. Ironically, selectively permitting kerbside turns, allowing advance starts and possibly 'flashing amber' permission during pedestrian phases (all of which legitimise crossing reds) are further up the list.
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>>There are lots of things that might improve cycle safety in London but tighter enforcement of current red lights isn't in the top 10
At a rough guess I would expect that there are lots of things that might improve length of life in the UK, but enforcement of current drink / driving rules isn't in the top 10.
So, shall we let it go then?
>>how many of the tally in say last five years have been down to red light jumping?
Equally seriously, how much does red light jumping indicate a generally lackadaisical, irresponsible and carefree approach to the highway code? And would enforcing the Highway Code in this instance actually impact that overall attitude and thus improve safety?
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>> At a rough guess I would expect that there are lots of things that might
>> improve length of life in the UK, but enforcement of current drink / driving rules
>> isn't in the top 10.
Drink is still pretty high up in the list of cause/contribution factors for road related death though.
>> Equally seriously, how much does red light jumping indicate a generally lackadaisical, irresponsible and carefree
>> approach to the highway code?
That's a possibility but my issue was with Pat's implication that RLJ was a factor in the (mostly tip/skip truck related) deaths of cyclists in London.
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>> At a rough guess I would expect that there are lots of things that might
>> improve length of life in the UK, but enforcement of current drink / driving rules
>> isn't in the top 10.
And whilst enforcement of the current rules are so low, it is pretty pointless to lower the limit.
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>> That's exactly my observation FF. The lights at the junction of Great George St and
>> Parliament Sq were, and no doubt still are, particularly bad for it - cars, taxis
>> and buses all. You can see it anywhere and everywhere though - does anybody still
>> stop at amber? The offence is committed at speed on a wing and a prayer.
Don't you have red light cameras? We have combined speed and red light cameras in my area. They will catch a red light runner or a green light speeder. Unfortunately not cyclists though.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 27 May 15 at 14:52
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>>
>> Don't you have red light cameras?
yes we have a few
>> We have combined speed and red light cameras in
>> my area. They will catch a red light runner or a green light speeder.
Don't make it sound like every traffic light has them, they don't Just like us you have a few.
Jump red lights? Well as i have often said on here, if the circumstances are right, and it is safe ,I will proceed with caution over a red light.
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>>
>> Jump red lights? Well as i have often said on here, if the circumstances are
>> right, and it is safe ,I will proceed with caution over a red light.
Which is exactly the course I'm advocating, where appropriate, for cyclists.
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>> Don't make it sound like every traffic light has them, they don't Just like us
>> you have a few.
I bow to your greater knowledge of Edinburgh cameras, I just drive around with my satnav alarming at about 50% of traffic lights, (four out of five on Queensferry Road).
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>> I bow to your greater knowledge of Edinburgh cameras, I just drive around with my
>> satnav alarming at about 50% of traffic lights, (four out of five on Queensferry Road).
No I just used a map of Scottish speed cameras, and google street view. You forgot to mention some of the lights with cameras on are for congestion purposes? Would be be much point in putting those up without enforcing it now would there.
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>> No I just used a map of Scottish speed cameras, and google street view. You
>> forgot to mention some of the lights with cameras on are for congestion purposes? Would
>> be be much point in putting those up without enforcing it now would there.
>>
Without checking I assume you mean the two sets of bus priority traffic lights on the dual carriageway, they are red light cameras only as far as I know. From memory the lights at Barnton, Drum brae, Quality Street, Telford Road, and Craiglieth, have red light cameras. The Craigcrook and Orchard Brae junctions do not have cameras. I know stuff all about London cameras and care less. When I am there later in the year I will obey the law and cause chaos.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 27 May 15 at 16:33
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Don't understand the "cyclists run red lights" argument because I suspect that as a proportion far more drivers run the red. You only have to sit at a light controlled junction and count how many cars still go through in front of you as your light goes green.
I'd not be so sure. I think a greater number of car drivers may run the red, but a higher percentage of cyclists might. Issue is complicated by the fact that red running cyclists and car drivers do not run reds in the same way. Cyclists tend to do it at the end of the red phase having seen the flow stop from the other way, or there are no further cars. Red running car drivers just take amber gambling to new heights and hope the traffic coming the other way will be slow off the mark.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Wed 27 May 15 at 14:41
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It's really not a matter of who does it most SP, it's the attitude of the cyclist that it's safer to break the law...... and so they will continue to stick two fingers up to the highway code at all costs.
Meantime, all other road users should have to cater for their indiscretions and take avoiding action.
Pat
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>> It's really not a matter of who does it most SP, it's the attitude of
>> the cyclist that it's safer to break the law
It's not a matter of 'attitude' Pat, plenty of commuters will know a junction where it's safer to anticipate the red. Mine was the old layout of the Bloomsbury Way/Southampton PLace junction - since modified.
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>> Pat's implication that RLJ was a factor in the (mostly tip/skip truck related) deaths of cyclists in London. <<
I certainly didn't imply that. I made it implicitly clear that it is this 'attitude' that cyclists have that is the problem.
The post above shows that >> will know a junction where it's safer to anticipate the red<<
Complete disregard of the rules of the road and a certainty that the 'individual' knows best.
I have done a lot of work to try and help resolve or reduce the problem of cyclists and lorries, some documented on here and some I'm not able to, but I remain convinced it is an attitude problem and not a physical one.
After all, the UK road network only works when EVERYONE plays by the rules, so everyone knows what they are doing and what they can expect everyone else to do.
Take any road user, even a pedestrian, not obeying those rules and it starts a problem that will only escalate.
Pat
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>> I have done a lot of work to try and help resolve or reduce the
>> problem of cyclists and lorries, some documented on here and some I'm not able to,
>> but I remain convinced it is an attitude problem and not a physical one.
If you start with the preconception that the problem is one of cyclist's attitude rather than their physical interface with lorries than I fear for your conclusions and the sense of those paying you for them.
Logically the idea that cyclists have a shared 'attitude' just doesn't stand up. Where on earth do you think we meet and propagate it? At least lorry drivers have night stops and outfits like their employer's bodies (FTA etc) as well as outfits like PDA.
You can condemn my behaviour at certain junctions all you like but the fact remains that intersections designed without regard for non motorised users exist. When probability * consequence scores register over X then I'm looking to mitigate. If mitigation means ignore/anticipate red then so be it. There are places (eg Bow Roundabout) where powers that be have accepted this and modified traffic lights or layout.
There is another group who ignore red in name of progress or because they see themselves as wheelborne pedestrians. They're wrong but I'm not seeing (or hearing screeching brakes) anything to suggest they're a real risk. Just 'bringing the game into disrepute'.
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It's really not a matter of who does it most SP, it's the attitude of the cyclist that it's safer to break the law...... and so they will continue to stick two fingers up to the highway code at all costs.
Meantime, all other road users should have to cater for their indiscretions and take avoiding action.
Ah but the post I was replying to, carried stuff about the numbers. I'm not getting involved in the politics.
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SP, you took me back to my lorry driving days there with that 'Ah but':)
I'd love a quid for the amount of times I had a bloke say to me Ah but.......permutate any one of 100 reasons why a woman can't do the job:)
Pat
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One of our own...Portland Street/Oxford Street, Manchester . RLJ post.
Last edited by: Ted on Sun 24 May 15 at 12:09
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>> youtu.be/o2Q5ldUE-u8
>>
>> Whoops!
>>
Update...
The Manchester Evening News today reported that our cycling bus-thumper said that he saw the lights changing and made a quick assessment of whether he'd get through. Deciding not to try, he pulled the front brake and the cable snapped. he said the rear brake was no good, being some sort of back-pedal arrangement. Good job he wasn't two seconds earlier.
All buses turn at this junction so are not going fast but a sudden braking by the driver may have caused some injuries as passengers would be standing to get off at the stop just off camera.
The driver got off at the stop and went back to see our friend...who wasn't injured apart from a graze or two and wounded pride. The bus driver confirmed the brake cable fracture.
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>> The Manchester Evening News today reported that our cycling bus-thumper said that he saw the lights changing and made a quick assessment of whether he'd get through. Deciding not to
try, he pulled the front brake and the cable snapped. he said the rear brake was no good, being some sort of back-pedal arrangement. Good job he wasn't two seconds earlier.
Hmm, having read the comments on YT that the rider has posted, he says the bike has a fixed back wheel - not a back pedal brake..
IMHO, after reading his comments, I believe he was riding too fast for the conditions, and on a poorly maintained bike... bowden cable don't just snap, if examined as they age, you see signs that strands of the wires are letting go before the cable is totally compromised.
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>> Hmm, having read the comments on YT that the rider has posted, he says the
>> bike has a fixed back wheel - not a back pedal brake..
There is pedal braking on a fixie; analogous to engine braking on a car. Not something you can do instantly in an emergency and so far as you could there'd be a danger of locking the wheel and losing control. Never ridden one myself and I suspect doing so is quite a skill. Oh, and in last few years they've become a fashion item.
>> IMHO, after reading his comments, I believe he was riding too fast for the conditions,
>> and on a poorly maintained bike... bowden cable don't just snap, if examined as they
>> age, you see signs that strands of the wires are letting go before the cable
>> is totally compromised.
You'd hope that regular inspections and mechanical sympathy for a stiffening set-up would catch such an event. In practice though much of the cable is hidden within the outer. Many set ups, for some, presumably logical, reason have the brake end of the outer pointing upwards allowing water to enter and then gather at lowest point. Water+air+steel = rust which is why the cable goes.
I've had a front one let go on a Brompton in London traffic. I'd thought regular applications of water discplacer/lubricant would keep damage at bay, it didn't. A bit scary....
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 27 May 15 at 09:08
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>> >>
>> There is pedal braking on a fixie; analogous to engine braking on a car. Not
>> something you can do instantly in an emergency and so far as you could there'd
>> be a danger of locking the wheel and losing control. Never ridden one myself and
>> I suspect doing so is quite a skill. Oh, and in last few years they've
>> become a fashion item.
>>
>> >>
Fixed wheel braking is just as efficient as a conventional rear brake on a bicycle which does nothing anyway as any more than a light application will lock the wheel - particularly at speed where your weight goes to the front when you apply the front brake. Fixed wheels used to be the norm on winter club runs years ago to save wear on the drive train of your best bike and virtually everyone had one. Dead easy to get used to and gives fantastic low speed control.
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>> Dead easy to get used to and gives fantastic low speed control.
Never tried myself but I've seen a few fashionistas riding them in London traffic get into difficulty. Now you mention it I remember older riders in our YHA group having wheels threaded on both sides of the hub for purpose of riding fixed.
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>> Dead easy to get used to and gives fantastic low speed control.
>>
I'd agree with that. I used to have a bike with a fixed wheel and liked the fact that you can wait at traffic lights without taking your feet off the pedals. Slow bicycle races would last for hours if all competitors used a fixed wheel.
:-)
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Convex mirror on traffic lights Pole - henry k
