Carrying on from where Vol 3 finished.
598267
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 11:00
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SNP gaining 7-10%, largely at the expense of Labour.
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Renfrewshire East the swing is 14% up for SNP and 14% down for Labour.
Over 40% of the Jews in Scotland live in East Renfrewshire (albeit only about 2.5% of the population there) - perhaps the antisemitism stuff has hastened Labour's demise.
Turnout 76.6% suggest a highly motivated voter base.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 03:14
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I see Ruth Smeeth got displaced from Stoke. She was head of the Labour Jewish group, or something like that.
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Conservative up 29, Labour down 19, at this moment. Johnson only needed to gain about 20, though there could well be losses to come through yet.
Bromp is going to be in a proper snarky mood come morning.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 03:19
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Well at least the ERG can't influence anything, and the DUP, are out of the picture, Bozo can hopefully go for a pragmatic and economically viable Brexit
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Looking at some of the results in the NE, it's probably the only time the labour party have been grateful to the brexit party.
There's some seats i honestly thought would never vote anything other than labour. A real blow to JC, I don't think the Conservative party thought they'd ever get a result like this.
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>> There's some seats i honestly thought would never vote anything other than labour.
1 out of 59 Scottish seats, and in 3rd place behind the Tories.
Not like there was a precedent for ignoring the electorate.
>>A real blow to JC
Who dat?
As long as Momentum have their evil claws in the Labour Party the Consevatives are laughing.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 08:13
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>> >>A real blow to JC
>>
>> Who dat?
>>
>>
>>
Jeremy corbyn.
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>> As long as Momentum have their evil claws in the Labour Party the Conservatives are
>> laughing.
Double whammy. Electing a bloke with a Lenin cap and a charisma bypass as leader, and faced with a crooked, populist Brexit campaign mixed up with a General Election. It doesn't say much for the electorate that they fell for the second one so easily.
Bozo had the cheek to say it was an election he would rather not have had, just another lie.
I voted for Gauke, more in hope than expectation. Results were
Con 30k
Gauke 16k
Lab 7k
LD 6k
Green 1.5k
I wish I believed that Johnson might dilute the hard Brexit, with any luck he might be dragged there by the EU if he doesn't get dragged somewhere else by the USA. The only thing we can be sure of is that he will do whatever suits his personal ambition and is convenient at the time.
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>> Looking at some of the results in the NE, it's probably the only time the
>> labour party have been grateful to the brexit party.
>>
>>
I read the brexit party gained more votes than the labour majority in 26 seats. If they hadn't stood, I think it's safe to say the Conservatives would have won most of them. It would have been total labour meltdown otherwise.
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Just seen Tony Blairs old constituency has gone Conservative. Wow.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 08:10
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>>Bromp is going to be in a proper snarky mood come morning.
I am sure he will appear before long with his analysis, either here or with the old farts.
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>> Over 40% of the Jews in Scotland live in East Renfrewshire (albeit only about 2.5%
>> of the population there) - perhaps the antisemitism stuff has hastened Labour's demise.
>>
Is that a real figure, Lygonos ? Certainly where a lot of my jewish school friends lived in the 70s.
No excuse for racism of any kind IMHO.
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>>Is that a real figure, Lygonos ?
Aye, from the 2011 census.
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interesting thanks, not living up there any more i get a bit out of touch with that sort of thing
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The Beast of Bolsover has been slain.
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I am reminded of this verse. Nothing changes.
On a General Election
The accursed power which stands on Privilege
(And goes with Women, and Champagne and Bridge)
Broke and Democracy resumed her reign:
(Which goes with Bridge, and Women and Champagne).
Hilaire Belloc
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>> The Beast of Bolsover has been slain.
Apparently, he has been unwell for some time. (Bladder cancer?)
Although I couldn't be further away politically, I have have a soft spot for him.
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>>
>> Although I couldn't be further away politically, I have have a soft spot for him.
>>
>>
....middle of Romney Marsh.....?
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>> >> The Beast of Bolsover has been slain.
>>
>> Apparently, he has been unwell for some time. (Bladder cancer?)
>>
>> Although I couldn't be further away politically, I have have a soft spot for him.
Admire his principles a lot, totally barmy tho
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>> >> Although I couldn't be further away politically, I have have a soft spot for
>> him.
>>
>> Admire his principles a lot, totally barmy tho
Not barmy, just not properly institutionalised despite having been there for 49 years. I think he's still down the mine and it all seems like a pantomime to him.
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See the vox pops from Bolsover - it makes no sense at all, but labour supporters voted Conservative because they didn't like Corbyn.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50777371
Weird logic, but there it is. With a personable leader and a pledge to fulfil the referendum result they would probably have walked it.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 14 Dec 19 at 10:28
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Cornwall blue from the Tamar to Lands End :o)
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I don't think Corbyn is an idiot but he was very much the wrong leader - perhaps not a leader at all, he never looked like one. He might not have been the source of the anti-semitism but he let it all get out of control. He was not enough of a performer - style isn't substance but it matters. He and presumably his top team were not in touch with his market - his pitch to the poor, homeless, halt and lame was there but his appeal to the socially responsible was only fair at best. To the mass market of those just getting on with getting by, that he needed on his side, he came across as much as a threat as he did a saviour, and he made his case very badly to the segment with the money who frankly need to pay some tax.
On LBC James O'Brien had calls from several hitherto lifelong Labour voters who had voted Conservative. Two said they were heartbroken that there was a massive Conservative majority but that they could not have "voted for Corbyn" (one of them because of Corbyn's apparent support for the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah). Almost beyond belief but I wonder how much of this there was.
Had Labour had a presentable leader, prioritised its policies a bit more, led with the more mainstream stuff, and undertaken to deliver on the Brexit referendum the result could have been very different.
I'm not sure that Labour yet accepts that the problem is with itself. Blaming the anti-Corbyn media campaign and Brexit will not help especially if the party elects another captive of the hard left as a consequence.
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Paraphrasing you/Manatee... the wrong leader, not a leader, letting anti-semitism get out of control, not in touch with the market, his pitch was lame, came across as a threat, made his case badly etc. etc.
>>I don't think Corbyn is an idiot
Well I don't know what else you would call him given the above performance review.
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>> Paraphrasing you/Manatee... the wrong leader, not a leader, letting anti-semitism get out of control, not
>> in touch with the market, his pitch was lame, came across as a threat, made
>> his case badly etc. etc.
>>
>> >>I don't think Corbyn is an idiot
>>
>> Well I don't know what else you would call him given the above performance review.
Incompetent? Which is even worse in a way. I'm probably being a bit pedantic as usual!
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Two said they were heartbroken that there was a massive Conservative majority but that
>> they could not have "voted for Corbyn" (one of them because of Corbyn's apparent support
>> for the IRA, Hamas and Hezbollah). Almost beyond belief but I wonder how much of
>> this there was.
Lots from what I've seen today. Reporters interviewing in seats labour lost to the conservatives. JC came up again and again, lots of them said they either couldn't trust him or they don't know where he stood on brexit.
This was all clips of people interviewed in the street so a pinch of salt required but a fair few of the analysts said similar.
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He got his backside handed to him by strong remainers (Scotland) and strong leavers (England and Wales) alike.
Indecision in binary issues = doom.
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Yup wot the doc said, classic case of trying to appeal to both sides, and passing through the blank spot in between
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Yep these are the people I heard on LBC, I just really hope that they have the balls to put their hands up and say 'I voted the Torys in' when in a years time their rights are flushed down the pan... they don't trust JC, I get it.. but WTF why then vote for the opposition and give them such a majority that they can basically do whatever they like for the next five years!
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Actually I must say that the idea of the fools voting for a party they don't like to get a Brexit they think they want, and then having to watch for 5 years as the elected party does a whole bunch of stuff they don't like or agree with does give me some perverse amusement.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Mar 20 at 12:44
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I share your vindictive nature in this respect
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Welcome to the Dark Side.
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>>I share your vindictive nature in this respect
Me three.
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Ooo, ooo, Can I be Clint Eastwood?
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>>Ooo, ooo, Can I be Clint Eastwood?
Sorry Eli, not this time.
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and then having to watch
>> for 5 years as the elected party does a whole bunch of stuff they don't
>> like or agree with does give me some perverse amusement.
>>
I'd say most/some are aware of their place in the pecking order.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 3 Mar 20 at 12:44
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www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50784811
"Jeremy Corbyn says he did "everything he could" to get Labour into power "
No, you did not. You could have quit 6 months ago.
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The significance of the SNP does not appear to justify the amount of noise Sturgeon makes.
Equally, surely UKIP and the Brexit party, especially Farage, realise that they really need to go far away
Conservative Party...43.6%......13,966,565
Labour Party............,32.2%.......10,295,607
SNP...........................3.9% ........1,242,372
Brexit Party................2%.............642,303
UKIP.........................0.1%......... 22,817
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 13 Dec 19 at 21:57
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SNP fight 59 seats out of 650.
They won 48 of those 59 seats with 45% of the vote.
Despite fielding candidates in less than 10% of available UK seats they have more than 4 times as many MPs as the Lib Dems who fielded candidates in almost every seat.
The relevance to England is minimal other than indy2 (which is likely to deliver a similar result to indy1 of course), but Sturgeon can say she has a mandate in Scotland similar to the Tories having over 520 seats in Westminster.
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I take your points.
However, the Lib Dems took 11.6% of the vote which was 3,696,423.
I quite understand the SNP's relevance to Scotland, though I suspect that even that represents lack of choice more than anything.
The problem is, how can it have significance within the UK on a numbers basis, and the truth is of course that it cannot. Not ever.
I can't really believe that Independence would be anything other than an economic disaster for Scotland and so (and this is a genuine question) is not the answer greater power devolution?
Though what, other than Brexit, are they really looking for control over?
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>>Though what, other than Brexit, are they really looking for control over?
The fantasy of oil and gas revenues of course.
Also there are a lot of reserved areas that Westminster still decide for Scotland such as foreign affairs, immigration, defence, business taxation, social security, and drug policies.
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>> I take your points.
>>
>> However, the Lib Dems took 11.6% of the vote which was 3,696,423.
And got 11 seats for nearly 4 times the vote share of the SNP that gave them 48, but that's a FPTP consequence of having your votes concentrated into a smaller number of seats.
Most forms of PR would disadvantage the Conservatives cf. Labour so there won't be any progress on that in the next 5 years.
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>They won 48 of those 59 seats with 45% of the vote.
And Nessie is giving her thanks!
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>> The relevance to England is minimal other than indy2 (which is likely to deliver a
>> similar result to indy1 of course),
Do you think that if there were an independence referendum tomorrow in Scotland that the figures would be similar to indy1?
Down here in the Deep south I/we get the impression that the call for independence has more support. Or is it simply that they are shouting louder?
Remind me, please. What were the figures last time? What do you think they would be now?
Edit.
To answer my own question. It was 55% against 45% for.
www2.gov.scot/Topics/constitution/background
Last edited by: Duncan on Sun 15 Dec 19 at 10:52
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Labour under Corbyn has totally disconnected itself from it's traditional supporters. They treated the genuine working class with contempt and believed that tweets from the hard left and millionaire celebrity sympathisers would be enough. They will need to think long and hard about how they re-invent themselves. The blood-letting in the party will be fun to watch though.
I hope this doesn't mean that I won't get free broadband now?
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It's no secret that I was disappointed by the referendum result, and indeed the very threat of Brexit has already had a devastating effect on the EU trade I am responsible for managing.
However, it is now all but done, we have a direction of travel to follow rather than circling the same roundabout incessantly.
It's time to move on and assess what challenges this route presents, deal with them as best we can, and seek any opportunities it may provide.
Anything has to be better than the limbo we have endured.
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I think, in Bassetlaw, the Brexit Party (BXP) was neither help nor hindrance, given that they achieved circa 5000 votes. At circa 28,000 for our man, Brendan Clarke-Smith MP, compared with circa 14,000 for the Labour/ Momentum place-man, the Conservatives clearly needed no siphoning off of Labour Leave voters to the BXP to win the seat, with the 18% swing being the largest in England.
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What a difference there was in the two main party leader's campaigning.
Corbyn - mean, critical, whining and sour.
Johnson - jolly, loud, proud, patriotic and optimistic.
Any wonder the Conservatives won so handsomely?
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Now we are certainly leaving the EU just wondering what sort of deal Leavers are expecting. Any thoughts Roger?
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You've been trying for 3 years, and I admire your persistence, but I still think you've no chance of an answer.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 15 Dec 19 at 02:26
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>> You've been trying for 3 years, and I admire your persistence, but I still think
>> you've no chance of an answer.
>>
I am sure Roger has just been gathering his thoughts an will shortly give me a detailed and comprehensive answer. To think that anyone would pursue an objective without knowing the broad details of what the were seeking to achieve would, after all, be laughable.
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>> Labour under Corbyn has totally disconnected itself from it's traditional supporters. They treated the genuine
>> working class with contempt and believed that tweets from the hard left and millionaire celebrity
>> sympathisers would be enough. They will need to think long and hard about how they
>> re-invent themselves. The blood-letting in the party will be fun to watch though.
>>
>> I hope this doesn't mean that I won't get free broadband now?
>>
They seemed to me to be a London centric party to me - "Champagne Socialists". Totally lost their roots.
Coupled with the anti Semitism, which Corbyn only apologised for when really pressured on the point then did so only grudgingly.
And the worst offence was treating his core supporters with disdain. They voted for Brexit and he should have understood that, supported it personally and had policies to implement it, with none of that "wishy washy" sitting on the fence carp.
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Labour’s shadow chancellor, John McDonnell has confirmed that he will not be part of the next shadow cabinet.
The 68-year-old and lifelong ally of Jeremy Corbyn, who has been Labour’s economic spokesperson since 2015, made the announcement in London today.
Speaking outside his home i
“We’ll all go now, the new leader will come into place and appoint their shadow cabinet - I won’t be part of that shadow cabinet, I’ve done my bit."
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>>And the worst offence was treating his core supporters with disdain. They voted for Brexit
>>and he should have understood that
....depends what you call "core" supporters, but the myth that Labour voters supported leave has been widely debunked - a quick resume here from Yougov (many other similar assessments are available):
"The vote on Britain's membership of the European Union cut across party lines, with significant division within Britain's main political parties. Conservatives voted to Leave, 61% to 39%. Labour voters (65%) and Liberal Democrats (68%) largely voted for Remain but significant minorities went for Leave. Only UKIP, where 95% voted for Leave, and the Greens, where 80% voted for Remain, avoided significant internal divisions on the vote."
The party members were also Remain-leaning.
In fact, Leave was largely driven by older, Tory voting people.
It's a good example of people seeing what they want to see, then making assumptions on what has resulted. I think where we are is more complex than that.
I think it will take some time to get to the bottom of Labour's disastrous performance. There are large factions citing Brexit and/or Corbyn for it, I'm not sure that the escalating "Manifesto" promises didn't have something to do with it. I think there might have been a "perfect storm" of factors.
Whatever, I think John McDonnell has at least part of a point with his comments:
"Mr McDonnell also called for a debate about the way the media “demonised” leader Jeremy Corbyn with a smear campaign against him, as well as a wider debate about the role of social media and media overall.
He says a character assassination shouldn’t be allowed to dominate politics, adding: “Let’s have an honest debate about the issues. It isn’t about individuals, it’s about policies and analysis.”
There is little doubt (in my mind at least) that the main-stream media have done a relentless hatchet job on Corbyn post the 2017 election scare. It was predictable (I predicted just such a campaign when he won the leadership election), his back-story didn't help, and Labour didn't handle it well. It has, however, been completely unbalanced coverage.
There is just as much in Johnson's background, much of it more recent, to have severe doubts about his fitness for PM, and the Tory party's behaviour in the electoral run-up has been less than squeaky clean, but it hasn't featured much at all in any of the press (possibly The Guardian, but muted, and The Independent less muted), or indeed TV coverage, with the exception of the "lefty" C4.
Don't misconstrue my comments, I am no supporter of Corbyn, but I do like my democracy rather more ethical.
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A few thoughts as a new poster:
I have been a life long fairly "one nation" Tory but I (a) thought Brexit a completely foolish strategy, and (b) was disgusted by the way Boris conducted himself since his election and throughout the campaign - lies, half truths, selective statistics, etc.
His only goal was Brexit irrespective of how it was achieved - and he got there.
I voted Libdem on the basis that they had some small chance of winning in my constituency - but they failed.
The Labour campaign I thought was the product of a fantasy detached from reality and wholly unaffordable. Despite a manifesto which was long on detail, they still made up extra spending commitments on the hoof to meet the demands every pressure group.
We have a result and a Brexit outcome I would not have voted for, but some clarity is emerging. What the Tories under Boris do with the power they have is still speculation.
John McDonell (who is clearly very bright) and Jeremy Corbyn are frankly delusional in believing their failure is some media conspiracy and the fault of Brexit. Their policies were not plausible or affordable, the anti semitism row was not resolved, and they spent three years sitting on a Brexit fence.
They should take responsibility, resign ASAP, and allow the Labour party to at least be a challenging rather than inconsequential opposition.
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"Labour under Corbyn has totally disconnected itself from it's traditional supporters. They treated the genuine working class with contempt ................"
Three and a half years ago, I observed on here that it wasn’t a clever idea to insult a section of the electorate ……….. and then ask them to vote for you; but that lesson wasn’t learned. Meanwhile the Labour party, for many years anti-EU, continued the shift away from its working class origins and became the London-centred mouthpiece for Momentum, the ‘elite’, celebs and luvvies; it became pro-EU; it certainly became anti-democratic. The party even became stupid enough to think that intelligent people could accept the likes of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary. WHAT???
Well, with a well-aimed kick into their crotch of arrogance, the Bremainials and the Labour party along with the pathetic LibDems got their ‘people’s vote’, they got their ‘second referendum’, they got their election and they got their answer.
As St Nick would say “ho, ho, ho, ho, ho!”
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>> Meanwhile the Labour party, for many years anti-EU
Which years were those?
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"Which years were those?"
In the days when the unions held greater sway over the party. I have no idea what the Labour party stands for these days - I don't think the party does either.
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>> "Which years were those?"
>>
>> In the days when the unions held greater sway over the party.
It was a genuine question. Wilson attempted to join during his 66-70 government and although he pledged 'renegotiation' he'd no intention of coming out in 74/5. There was a minority on the left who were anti-marketeers (Benn and Castle) and some prominent union leaders like Hugh Scanlon but they didn't hold sway over manifesto etc.
The only time I can remember policy being 'out' was Foot's campaign in 1983.
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>> It was a genuine question. Wilson attempted to join during his 66-70 government and although
>> he pledged 'renegotiation' he'd no intention of coming out in 74/5. There was a minority
>> on the left who were anti-marketeers (Benn and Castle) and some prominent union leaders like
>> Hugh Scanlon but they didn't hold sway over manifesto etc.
>>
>> The only time I can remember policy being 'out' was Foot's campaign in 1983.
>>
This is caveated with the disclaimer that in 1974 I was three... however, having covered it at A levels in both politics and economics (at he time of the Exchange Rate mechanism collapsing , the prevailing tone we were taught then was that there had been a significant contingent of opponents in the Labour Party, not a minority. Castle, Benn and Shore were reasonably heavyweight at the time. Despite that, and somewhat analogous to today, the Parliamentary Labour Party was broadly in favour of the EEC as was, whereas the rank and file were not.
Harold Wilson was less keen on Europe than the Torys, and from ‘63 to ‘73 they were ambivalent. He tried to take us in ‘67 but was vetoed by the french. From ‘79 to ‘84 the party was split on the topic. In ‘83 they were definitely against, and until ‘92 were on the fence. It was only in ‘92 and then ‘97 they became strongly in favour. So arguably, in almost half of the last 50 odd years they’ve either been anti Europe or ambivalent.
But until the Labour Party can better align itself with its members it’s going to struggle to ever be credible. Taking a ‘we know best’ condescending approach is never going to work when, to these with even a modicum of intelligence, it’s blinding obviously that the PLP doesn’t know what it’s talking about and has absolutely no ability or skills to articulate how it’s going to deliver what it aspires to. It’s easy to say what you want to do. But the country expects any party to be able to set out how. And that’s where the Labour Party always falls down. It’s easy to find people who agree with you if you only ever talk to and mix with people like yourself. Those who’ve worked in the real world, and every single day interact with a cross section of people from all walks of life, are far more likely to be in touch with what really bothers people, and what they’d like. Just my thoughts. I hope they do. It’s not good for any country to have a weak (or in our case incompetent) opposition.
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>>
>>
>> Three and a half years ago, I observed on here that it wasn’t a clever
>> idea to insult a section of the electorate ……….. and then ask them to vote
>> for you; but that lesson wasn’t learned.
>>
>>
And when you've got people who've worked all their lives in tough manual jobs being lectured by privileged luvvies like Lily Allen and Eddie Izzard it doesn't help either.
John McDonnell is bang on when he says Labour needs to move out of London and back into the regions that form it's traditional base. The party's electoral success was based on it's appeal to those in the bottom half of the pile, they have lost that and become the voice of the younger middle classes.
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Apparently, the exit polls were showing a labour landslide up until 5-o-clock. Then everyone else finished work and went and voted............................................................
;>)
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Labour still don't get it, they keep banging on about how popular their policies were. If I stood and promised everyone a million a year basic income it would be a tremendously popular policy, but no one would vote for me because they would realise it was something I couldn't possibly afford to carry out. The election was obviously a topic of conversation with the regulars who come in the shop, but people - including traditional Labour supporters - were openly laughing at free this and free that and cash for everyone and anyone, all paid for by some ridiculous financial mathematics.
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Tue 17 Dec 19 at 11:07
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>>The election was obviously a topic of conversation with the regulars who come in the shop, but people - including traditional Labour supporters - were openly laughing at free this and free that and cash for everyone and anyone, all paid for by some ridiculous financial mathematics.
Is that why you voted Labour then guvnor.
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>>
>>
>> Is that why you voted Labour then guvnor.
>>
I voted Labour for purely selfish reasons. Mrs SJ is a WASPI and was in line for £26,300 backpay if the Reds won. Who knows whether they could have actually done it or not, but if you're not in it you can't win it.
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>>Mrs SJ is a WASPI and was in line for £26,300 backpay if the Reds won
Better than chopped liver I suppose. My ole woman was in line for c£20k (Bjorn in '52) if the Marxists got in :)
>>if you're not in it you can't win it.
When I win £105m I'm getting out of this country ... for good!
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>> When I win £105m I'm getting out of this country ... for good!
That's the only way you will get out, you'll never get a visa otherwise. You voted against freedom of movement, you see.
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"That's the only way you will get out, you'll never get a visa otherwise. You voted against freedom of movement, you see."
Waving £105m, I'm sure Australia would find a way to let you in.
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>> "That's the only way you will get out, you'll never get a visa otherwise. You
>> voted against freedom of movement, you see."
>>
>> Waving £105m, I'm sure Australia would find a way to let you in.
>>
That’s the point isn’t it. We currently have, as do our children and grandchildren have the absolute the right to live and work anywhere in the EU. Casually and overnight this fantastic freedom will be removed for some nebulous arguments that nobody can articulate.
Of course the rich will ways be able to buy the right to reside wherever the wish. Most of us will not be so fortunate.
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>> That’s the point isn’t it. We currently have, as do our children and grandchildren have
>> the absolute the right to live and work anywhere in the EU. Casually and overnight
>> this fantastic freedom will be removed for some nebulous arguments that nobody can articulate.
>>
>> Of course the rich will ways be able to buy the right to reside wherever
>> the wish. Most of us will not be so fortunate.
>>
Carp isn't it. At the moment I can fly to any EU country to see a client that wants to extend credit at a moments notice, keep the customer happy, solve any problems, discuss future plans, go over the books etc.
From next year I will probably need a visa to conduct business trips, which means a wait, which means that customers may go to the local competition, which means my firm will lose income.
That romantic trip to Paris is going to be more difficult to book as are reciprocal trips from our French cousins to Londres with similar hits to the travel and tourism industries.
Last edited by: zippy on Tue 17 Dec 19 at 23:10
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Relax chaps - no need for visas with BEANO.
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>> From next year I will probably need a visa to conduct business trips, which means
>> a wait, which means that customers may go to the local competition, which means my
>> firm will lose income.
If we dont have a comprehensive trade and finance deal (financial passporting) in place to match the current one, dont worry about it, it wont be a problem.
1/ No-one n Europe is going to want to raise finance through the UK
2/ Those that do, cant get it elsewhere, so they are a tick bpx high risk operation
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>From next year I will probably need a visa to conduct business trips...
Employment rules will change but I doubt it's going to affect short business trips and meetings. Scuttling around Europe for the last few years before I retired it's always been a bit of a pita anyway. Flying into the "International" terminals and having to go through immigration before I could meet up with colleagues who had flown in from elsewhere in Europe. CDG was a real pain because of the convoluted walk to the domestic side.
It will only be a problem if EU states play hardball and demand that ANY work within that state needs a business visa. For example, a few years ago I had to get business visas for Australia, India and China simply because I was giving two day lectures there, even though my salary was actually being paid in the US.
It's not in their interests and if they go down that route businesses on both sides of the channel will go apeshit.
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>>That's the only way you will get out, you'll never get a visa otherwise. You voted against freedom of movement, you see.
I could always go 'under the radar' like my sisters boy has done in Florida for the past 25 years.
Had a successful business servicing Canadian holiday home owners properties, he owned a nice spread, had the Winnebago, part-owned a helicopter etc. etc.
Died 2 weeks ago - brain cancer, getting on though ... 59.
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>> I'm getting out of this country ... for good!
I'm sure a for prospect like that, we could easily get a whip round.
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>>I'm sure a for prospect like that, we could easily get a whip round.
Go fund me then.
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>> Labour still don't get it, they keep banging on about how popular their policies were.
>> If I stood and promised everyone a million a year basic income it would be
>> a tremendously popular policy, but no one would vote for me because they would realise
>> it was something I couldn't possibly afford to carry out.
Labour's communication was appalling. I do think they got carried away e.g. with the WASPI compensation where up to £58bn was seemingly magicked up, but there's no real reason to think the rest was unaffordable. (actually it would have been far less than that gross figure because of the effect on benefits).
The policies certainly represented a strategic change, implying that total government spending would rise over a period from c 35% to 40% of GDP. That in turn implies a major shift in both the tax take and what we get for it.
The USA spends 27% of GDP, but also has 40m. living in poverty and another 40m. just above that level. Who wants that for the UK? The establishment Tories of course. The Netherlands spends 42-43%. The Nordic countries all spend 50% or more. All of these countries have higher GDP per capita than the UK and are not exactly economic failures.
It would have been far more logical to say that Corbyn wanted to turn the UK into a Netherlands, Sweden or Denmark than to say we will end up like Venezuela. But the smears worked. Millions have been persuaded that Labour are either just reckless or incompetent, when in fact the Conservatives' promises of tax cuts and higher spending are far more suspect.
What Labour doesn't get is that its campaign stank and its leader as near to unelectable as makes no difference, even if that was partly due to four years of Mail/Sun/Express propaganda.
Labour are trying to blame Brexit, but the ruling cadre is so far up itself and has so much internalised the policies that it didn't even try to explain why a higher level of redistribution would be good for everybody. Even the have-nots are not all seeing the benefits, those with a social conscience are probably convinced enough, but the wealthy whose mindset is the pursuit of money won't get it while they are demonised, and the mass of people who pay little attention to politics clearly just want a charismatic leader to vote for. The lifelong Labour voters who "couldn't vote for Corbyn" and are now heartbroken at the Tory majority just defy belief. No wonder the Tories aren't keen to fund education properly.
Still, the die has been cast for the next five years. The referendum was dishonestly conducted, and so was the election. That's the first thing that needs fixing but I don't see how that's going to happen if the turkeys don't start thinking for themselves.
I blame Labour. Tories are just doing what Tories do. I fear Labour will keep doing the same thing and keep getting the same result.
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The General Election thread - Volume 3 - Lygonos
