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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 11 Apr 11 at 01:11
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This photo in the Sun shows what caused the damage to the car and to Robert.
tinyurl.com/64wlyhn
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Very sad. I thought of him as an 'up and coming' driver.
I hope he makes a decent enough recovery to earn a respectable living.
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I too hope he makes a good recovery. If that mighty reliable tome of a paper (Sun) is right he lost 5 pints of blood. The body of the average adult is about 5 litres or just under.
From the photo of the armco barrier - he's just lucky to be alive. That bad accident in F1 he had was nothing compared to hitting some guard rail at speed and at the wrong angle!
What I don't see from the media coverage so far is how he might recover fully and ALSO want to race! He's just survived a bad accident and nearly lost his hand.
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>> What I don't see from the media coverage so far is how he might recover
>> fully and ALSO want to race! He's just survived a bad accident and nearly lost
>> his hand.
He will want to race. What separates a skilled driver from a winning F1 driver is the complete lack of any appreciation of risk or consequences, combined with a feeling of invincibility. Zanardi raced again with no legs, and crashed a lot afterwards.
I doubt he will race again tho. You need feel in your hands. I doubt he will have that touch back again.
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>> I doubt he will race again tho.
I agree with that doubt, certainly unlikey to race in Formula1, but see the story of Alessandro "Sandro" Nannini
en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/driver/1104.html
"Nannini's Formula One career was cut short when an arm was severed in a helicopter accident. Micro-surgery reattached the limb, and Alessandro became a race-winner in the German Touring series. .... ..... and a contract with Ferrari was rumoured, came the helicopter crash. Fighting back valiantly, he starred for Alfa Romeo on the international touring car scene until 1997, when he joined Mercedes' works sports car team. "
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Yeah, legless Zanardi came back for 6 years into World Touring Cars.
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And Johnny Herbert came back from a bad crash in F3000, which nearly cost him both feet, to some success in F1.
But I believe he never quite got back all the strength he needed.
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>> This photo in the Sun shows what caused the damage to the car and to
>> Robert.
more photos here tinyurl.com/6hjcer9 (Daily Wail link).
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Will it happen?
It appears that loads of kit is en route by sea so no option to hold it elsewhere.
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9400392.stm
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>> Will it happen?
Yes - One of the Arab states its going to put an end to this wave of protest with extreme lethal force.
If its not Libya, it will be Bahrain.
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But will it finish or will there be some sort if interruption?
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AT the risk of being mown down by machine guns? It will finish.
Blood, and lots of it is going to flow soon.
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If they have to surround the place with a ring of steel, the race will go on I suspect.
If nothing else, they dont mess about.
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Bernie Ecclestone said he would give it till Wednesday to calm down in Bahrain. It's unlikely that the authorities there will lose. Small country, US naval base closest to Iran, can't be allowed to.
Unfortunately for F1 enthusiasts Bahrain society embodies in an inconvenient way the schism within Islam between the Tradition and the Cult. So if, as Zero shrewdly predicted, much blood is going to be shed there it's unlikely that the dust will have truly settled by Wednesday.
Not a peep out of Syria yet although the Libyan dissidents are having a bit of a go. Of course the Syrian mukhabarrat have the hook. If they get seriously miffed with you they impale you from a meat hook through one of your orifices and pull on the bits that hang down.
moved to the F1 discussion thread
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 19 Feb 11 at 16:56
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Laughed at Gaddafi's response to the protests in Lybia - according to the BBC radio news, he'd said he was quite keen to join the protests.
God only knows where it will end...
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Not sure where the blood will be spilt, one of the Arab states will make an example, and soon.
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Unsustainable in the long run though Zeddo - they will tumble, the Communists knew a thing or two about brutality and they scuttled away in the end...
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Oh of course *WE* know that, alas the Middle East nations dont, they are all bouyed up by the brutal repression that followed the sham Iranian elections.
Of course all you are doing is shaking up the fizzy drink bottle by doing that. When the top comes off it flies a long way and is lost - very messy.
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Seems we loose one of the dullest races on the calender. Seems like a result from an F1 point of view.
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Apparantly they were stung by the comments last time and have changed the track.
Its no loss to the teams, they have all made major changes this year and need the extra test and prep time.
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>> need the extra test and prep time.
>>
planned dates
2011 Testing
February 18-21 Barcelona
March 3-6 Bahrain (in jeopardy)
2011 F1 World Championship March
March 13 Bahrain (in jeopardy)
March 27 Australia (in jeopardy - not this year, but at a future year)
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They have asked for extra testing in barcelona to make up for the loss of testing in bahrain,
The testing they can do in Barcelona is much more than that in Bahrain, as its a "home" GP for most teams and they can truck so much more kit there,
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>> They have asked for extra testing in barcelona to make up for the loss of
>> testing in bahrain,
>>
Thanks. I had not caught up with that news.
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All the kit's in containers on ships somewhere in the Eastern Mediterranean or the Red Sea. Or do they go round the long way these days?
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 18 Feb 11 at 20:47
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Not the important kit, like cars and spares. and new bits and pieces, it hasnt left yet.
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Isn't the F1 circus airlifted around the world?
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some of it, and only on what they call the "away" GP's
"Away" is anywhere you cant truck to from England or Italy.
They don't have much stuff "away" as they do at home. There is an open contract with DHL to airfreight stuff "away"
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Incidentally, the BBC World Service says the Egyptians are celebrating their 'revolution' and there will be a programme about it.
Have I missed something?
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Bernie has just been "interviewed" on BBC
The crown prince will decide if the GP goes ahead.
Usual responses from Berie but it appears that Tuesday is decision day.
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I thought that a rather strange interview. Bernie might have expressed himself better along lines of taking advice from foreign office and other sources and will make final decision by Tuesday. On the one hand, unless he's gone by then, the CP clearly has a veto. On the other hand, however much the CP wants the event to go ahead it's not likely to happen if there's massive unrest, no guarantee of security at the circuit and adverse steers from the FO.
So quite why the interviewer needed to adopt such a pompous tone I don't know.
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Missed the end of the Ecclesone interview as I found Gary Richardson's style too grating. Reports later suggest postponement as an option though not clear how they can shoehorn a later date into the rest of the race season.
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>>I found Gary Richardson's style too grating.
The interview and the words of Bernie
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/9402906.stm
You have to love Bernie's way with words. :-)
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>> If they have to surround the place with a ring of steel, the race will
>> go on I suspect.
Wrong! It's off:-)
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9402871.stm
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Yup, I assumed it would go ahead
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The cynic in me says this gives the ruling elite the chance to shut the country down, gag the media, and get down and dirty.
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>> The cynic in me says this gives the ruling elite the chance to shut the
>> country down, gag the media, and get down and dirty.
>>
These dictators aren't stupid, they can see the writing on the wall. They will be stashing their fotunes away and getting ready to run.
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At present, the F1 teams will start the season not knowing how many GPs they will have to take part in.
OK, they know to within one race, but does the uncertainty make any difference to the drivers or team tactics?
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19 races.
No way of squeezing Bahrain in, its gone for the year.
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...No way of squeezing Bahrain in, its gone for the year...
Not quite what Ecclestone's just said on the radio.
But if the political situation in Bahrain is to F1's liking before the end of the season, I'll eat my Shernagh (after buying one first).
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Despite what he thinks, he has to have the agreement of the teams...
If it was a home GP, its possible - Its not. Another would need to drop out.
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I think postponed is the official line though no alternative dates have been mentioned.
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and therein lies the problem - Where do you put the extra date.
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>> and therein lies the problem - Where do you put the extra date.
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Bernie's on the case:
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89625
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Where theres money, Bernie will find a way.
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>> >> and therein lies the problem - Where do you put the extra date.
>> >>
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>> Bernie's on the case:
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>> www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89625
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He still doesn't say where he will fit it in. You cant say,. oh lets just squeeze it in here, or tack it on at the end. Abu Dhabi is GP no 19, (now 18) and Brazil is no 20 (now 19)
There is only 12 days between Abu Dhabi and Brazil, and half the world apart. You cant ship them back again from Brazil.
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If they wanted to run another race in Europe, it could easily be done. In the past they had a European Grand Prix as a sort of floating race fixture.
The reason they will not, is because it would not make any money and that is the real reason.
Bernie does not give two hoots about the viewing public. As proof, I give you the debacle that was the American GP of a few years ago.
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"Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone has ruled out a summer slot for the Bahrain GP, and is aiming to have the race at the end of the season instead."
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89714
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Listened to a documentary on the World Service on Friday detailing why F1 needs to explore new territories; it doesn't contain any great revelations and gets a little unnecessarily dewy-eyed over Maranello, but is interesting nonetheless.
(It also contains a nice little line regarding the Tifosi's preference of Villeneuve over Schumacher.)
Part 2 on Friday. Part 1 available on the Documentaries page of the BBC World Service website. Please note that I'm too old and lazy to paste a link; if you are interested you'll find your way to it...
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Fwiw, I quite liked the WRC coverage when it was in Dave in the last couple of years. I thought moving it to ESPN may improve things further, but the coverage is much shorter now, and isn't always at a convenient time.
I was quite looking forward to seeing the new Citroen and Ford WRC cars in action, but unless things improve I can't see me watching very often.
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Ferrari have announced another change to the title of their 2011 model - the one that upset Ford because of the similarity to the F150 pickup.
tinyurl.com/49dkyw5 Link to www.ferrari.com shortened to restore correct page width
No confusion any more then, for "even... the thickest of people" :)
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 8 Mar 11 at 13:36
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sniffpetrol.com/2011/03/16/exclusive-f1-testing-analysis/
(Some parts of sniffpetrol contain swearing. This link doesn't, though.)
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Excellent.
I would have liked a bit more cursing and blinding though.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 26 Jul 11 at 10:23
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news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9432232.stm
"Formula 1 chief Bernie Ecclestone says there is growing support for using sprinkler systems to wet F1 tracks in order to make races more entertaining."
Seems a bit extreme to me.
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IMO what is needed to make F1 more entertaining is more overtaking (check out MotoGP - more overtakes per lap than in some whole F1 bore sessions). Wet tracks won't help overtaking.
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>> IMO what is needed to make F1 more entertaining is more overtaking (check out MotoGP
>> - more overtakes per lap than in some whole F1 bore sessions). Wet tracks won't
>> help overtaking.
>>
So many overtakes and re-overtakes in fact that most of them are meaningless.
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Maybe meaningless in respect of the final placings but still worth watching - better than a procession with mimimal overtaking.
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Wetting the track on purpose is a damn silly idea. If it's raining will they bring out a lot of old jet engines on dollies to dry the track I wonder?
It's another nail in the coffin of motor racing as a genuine outdoor sport and another step towards something more like full-size scalextric or slot racing. Just awful.
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The whole excitement of rain in F1, is the unpredictability of it. Will it, wont it, where, when, how much, how long, leading to "should I change to wets, intermediates, stay on slicks"
Seems like Bernie is loosing it. Perhaps he is punch drunk after being beaten up by his wife too often.
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Seems like these new high wear tyres will create a few interesting situations anyway, Im looking forward to seeing how they turn out for creating excitement.
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its just a bit of pre season bang drumming
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Why doesn't Mr E go the whole hog and introduce pot holes. That'll make it interesting. Maybe F1 will help develop some sort of pothole avoidance device to be rolled-out to the common motorist.
He could go further still and put pelican crossings or traffic lights on a track - Hell why not just allow spectators to wander around or paint a cycle lane on it too!
Personally I like Top Gear's suggestion of a figure of eight track. Hmmm, nice.
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That was a suprise. Vettel wasnt although where Webber was I dont know, I expect he is asking the same thing ( as will Button no doubt ), but McLaren being right up there and Ferrari being relatively nowhere just goes to show that test pace doesnt always translate to the first GP.
Highlight was in the post-quali coverage when Ron Dennis gave Jordan a actual piece of 'humble' pie, rightly so I think, what a turnaround, not often our man Ed has to eat his words.
Vettel though, wow, blew Webber away in a very serious manner and Hamilton also, bearing in mind he didnt have Kers and Jenson did, also made a big statement of intent by going nearly a half second quicker - if as they say Kers is worth 3 tenths, that woul bring the team mate difference to 8 tenths like Webber/Vettel - some head scratching to go on for sure.
Koby was up there and HRT looked even more of a joke than last year if thats at all possible ( apparently so - 10 seconds off the pace is quite something ). Schui - oh dear, I hope he has good race strategy ( he may well do if the tyres make the difference ).
Certainly entertaining.
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Just saw a clip of the 3 quali 'winners' waving to the crowd, taken from behind - Vettel in the middle with his arms round the shoulders of Hamilton and Webber, but it was obvious that there was no way Webber was going to put his arm around Vettel...
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And the first quote from Christian Horner was blaming Mark Webber for letting Lewis onto the front row.
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>>just goes to show that test pace doesnt always translate to the first GP.>>
Its the very low temperatures by comparison to the tests.
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Track temperatures at Barcelona were not much higher. Melbourne was cool yes, for Melbourne, but not that much cooler than Barcelona.
This was the first time they were all on similar fuel loads. Don't forget there is no refuelling this year, so they all have to have been on race distance fuel.
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10 to 12 deg C cooler than Barca ...
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25c (highest) in Barcelona Day 1 Testing (, 17c (lowest) in Melbourne Qualifying
Track temperature.
thats 8c difference, insignificant.
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8c is not significant, Most tyres are designed to run at between 90 and 110c. As you see 8c falls into that tolerance range.
It was however significant that they were not working the temperatures up, no hot or fast warm up laps. So clearly the 8c lower track temperature was not considered a factor by the teams, or they would have been working the tyres up hotter.,
If it had been a factor then Vettel would not have posted a qualifying time .5 seconds faster than last year despite being significantly heavier on a full race distance fuel load.
And anyway, the track temperature is the same for ALL teams. So its not a factor in comparing teams between Barcelona and Melbourne. No one know what fuel loads they were running in testing, but at Melbourne they do. Clearly that the biggest difference in testing and qualifying.
Edit and all the last minute changes and additions to cars of course.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 13:04
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The qualifying, this year, like last is effectively done on empty tanks. The cars are allowed to refuel before the race.
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Ah!
I stand corrected then. Anyway, it still means they are all effectively on the same fuel load, unlike testing.
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Yes true indeed. I would say however that Ferrari and Mercedes were both off the pace for some reason. The most likely reason being how their cars use the tyres. From what I gathered everyone in the pitlane said the tyres were far more durable than at any time during the tests. If Ferrari and Mercedes were good on those tyres during testing then maybe the change has caught them out. (Doesnt explain why RedBull were largely unaffected though).
Autosport.com was running an article saying that after careful analysis of the test times that they reckoned Ferrari were the team to beat. 2 have managed so far!
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Have you seen Autosport mag, they have a graphic showing the fastest cars I testing, Alonso, Vettle, Massa IIRC, the notable thing is the Webber is missing, strange, must be an error.
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Just this minute watched qualifying on iplayer.
What fun, another season.
The world champion still has the machine. He needs to watch out for the Aussie though. Not to mention our two matinee idols who seem to have found some speed, anyway if you listened to what was being said beforehand. But Lewis Hamilton appeared to be in a towering rage after his more-than-creditable effort in splitting the Red Bulls. Perhaps his girl friend's dress was to blame. It wound me up and I don't even know the lady.
Kobayashi still well up there, faster than his car (like the man in the song who was too sexy for his shirt). In fact during the first session, in which he was third fastest, he did a couple of spectacular high-speed slides on his fast lap. He is one of very few who can contain those in a modern F1 car.
Alonso coping well with a piggish understeering Ferrari. Not their style really.
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>> Kobayashi still well up there, faster than his car (like the man in the song
>> who was too sexy for his shirt).
Right Said Fred.
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There are two famous Kobayashis
Takeru Kobayashi (born March 15, 1978) is a Japanese competitive eater. He held the world record for hot dog eating for nearly six years, and holds several other eating records, including three Guinness Records for hot dogs, meatballs, and hamburgers.
and
Kamui Kobayashi, the racing driver.
So I assume its "right said Kamui"
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"There are two famous Kobayashis"
Three if you include the Kobayashi Maru, the no-win situation to test the character of cadets facing failure or death.
(on Star Trek)
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"Right Said Fred"
They used to drink in the Crabtree by the river in Hammersmith. Their office was right opposite my studio, probably still is. On the day of Concorde's last flight everyone piled into the street for the final flyover which was right above us, and I got talking to their secretary who was a delicious piece of mature action. I remember thinking it would be fun to get her into bed (or on the boardroom table), but I never saw her again after that.
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>> I remember
>> thinking it would be fun to get her into bed (or on the boardroom table),
>> but I never saw her again after that.
Are you sure you weren't thinking aloud?
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On BBC4 at 9:00 Sunday night, a documentary on the dark days of the sixties and seventies when F1 drivers accepted that it was not if you died, but when, if you raced for long enough.
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I am fortunate enough to have obtained an HD* copy of Grand Prix - the 1966 film directed by John Frankenheimer in 70mm super panavision ( I was lucky enough to have seen it as a child when it premièred in London shown in Cinerama format)
Featuring Phil Hill, Graham Hill, Juan-Manuel Fangio, Jim Clark, Jochen Rindt, Jack Brabham, Richie Ginther and Bruce McLaren, and superb in car footage of the banking at Monza, it shows perfectly the do or die (literally) attitude of motor racing of the pre 1070's birth of the safety culture.
There are two great racing Films, the 1966 version of Grand Prix above, and 1971 Le Mans directed by Lee H. Katzin, starring Steve McQueen.
*Yes the old HD format before Blueray won the hi def wars. So I can only play it on the PC.
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Of course I meant 1970's
In 1070 there was no do or die, just die.
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>> In 1070 >>
They were using carburettors and Murray Walker was young.
EDIT: spellin'
Last edited by: Cheddar on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 13:42
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Just watched the 2 documentaries on BBC 4. Both very good. The second one on the risks and dangers in the 60s and 70s was tragic. The most shocking was the death of Williamson, where everyone except a fellow driver basically did nothing to help the stricken and burning car. All played out live on TV
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 28 Mar 11 at 00:52
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Off we go again - up at 6, I tried to enjoy the first race of 2011, but it was sooo boring. Vettel drove well and won .. again. Yes, Petrov's second place was a surprise, but hardly earth shattering. Button was frustrated .. yes, again. Maybe more interesting will be the prog on BBC4 tonight, 9-10, on F1's "killer years" of the 60s and 70s.
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I didn't even bother to try to wake up.
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I'm just getting towards the end of reading Bernie Ecclestone's biography. Like him or loath him it's a fascinating tale...
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Who but a lunatic or fanatic or pathological early riser like Pat would get up at dawn, when there's a repeat at lunch time?
In his bad-tempered bleariness, Buddy failed to notice that in fact it was an interesting race, packed with incident and technical interest, and giving pointers to the rest of the season (but only pointers).
Petrov brilliant, Hamilton very solid indeed, Kobayashi feeling his way in, old warhorse Barichello going for a bit of comedy, Paul di Resta keeping his nose clean and making up two places in cool low-key fashion.
How did Lewis Hamilton's car go so fast with its belly dragging along the ground? A single speed bump or decent pothole would have sent him vaulting into New South Wales. And what was wrong with the Sauber rear wing that got both cars disqualified?
Boring indeed! Some people just don't really like motor racing. Perhaps they would prefer banger racing.
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The latest results
Di Resta initially finished 12th in the Australian Grand Prix, only to be elevated to 10th after the race as Sauber duo Sergio Perez and Kamui Kobayashi were excluded from the classification. The FIA have cited a technical infringement relating to the rear wing, however, Sauber have since lodged a statement of intention to appeal.
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Flicked it on at lap 30-something. Turned it off at lap 40-something. So glad I didn't bother to wake up early.
This from someone who even took two hours out of his honeymoon in 1997 to watch F1.
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If i am at home i might watch the start and just the first couple of laps if it's on at a normal time, then possibly flick over to it a couple of times to watch the procession for a few minutes, but i certainly wouldn't stay in, or get out of bed at 6 o'clock to watch it these days as it is so boring now, and i am another person who used to love following F1 !
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agree with all of that, Skip - F1 must now be the dreariest example of motor sport ... give me the excitement and driving skills of World Rallying any day; trouble is, it's not on very often.
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In the 80s F1 was a lot more interesting as there was not only overtaking but the cars were not as reliable. Sometimes due to overheating they'd fail to get off the grid.
I watched most of today's F1 at 30x speed.
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The real threat of mechanical failure is a much needed wildcard, IMHO. And if you're going to have mechanical failure, it should be properly spectacular. As in engine internals becoming externals, not a software glitch on a flappy paddle gearbox...... ;-)
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Moto GP and Superbikes are good to watch and there is a lot of TV coverage
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Win or loose, those McLaren lads are difficult to dislike.
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Robert Kubica has suffered "serious injuries" - henry k
