For continued debate.
Link to Volume 4
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 00:32
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rtj70 said in vol 4
>> I've said this before but in my experience on Vodafone you cannot access your voicemail from another phone until you setup a PIN. There isn't a default one (or there never used to be) as such.
02 has the default number 8705 as the PIN. Up until 2 or 3 years ago you could use this PIN to access other people's voice mails if they hadn't changed the default PIN.
Now you have to change the default PIN before being able to access the voicemail from another phone.
edit: see here - techspotting.org/phone-hacking/
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 00:36
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Unlike most commentators, including many who are better informed than I am, I didn't think the Digger, in the clips I have seen of the afternoon events, seemed bumbling or past it. In fact he bumbled less than the boy James. His attitude wasn't vague, it was contemptuous. He really hardly cares, but having a strait-laced side felt he ought to sound penitent. Long pauses for reflection, quite possibly about something else altogether, come naturally to a person who is listened to quietly, patiently and obediently by most of the people he meets. Why not be parsimonious when people hang on your every word? Let them wait. Make every word count.
The monosyllabic responses uttered firmly, with a look of hard geniality, are pure Ocker flimflam practised over many years of charming people with obvious success.
Much as I would have expected. People are starting to talk longingly of a 'smoking gun' or a corporate coup d'état, but I doubt that they'll get either. James Murdoch did admit something, but one assumes that was sort of within chickenfeed parameters and scripted. Otherwise they didn't admit a thing and didn't need to. So apart from Glenn Mulcare's legal costs the only surprise was the pie warrior.
Curious phenomenon those people. They do it out of frustration. It's a form of non-lethal assassination with ruffled feathers and humiliation instead of blood and brains. But I think it's a bit rough to do it to someone of 80. The old crocodile didn't seem all that shaken by it.
Rah rah Wendi! You the girl!
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 04:07
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I suppose I ought to add that Rupert Murdoch is not in my opinion a friend of ours and has ridden and is riding roughshod over our institutions and customs. But he isn't alone in doing that, and one has to admire what really must be a form of genius.
But he isn't our victim and it isn't surprising everyone wants his skin as the French say.
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I knew I had seen that hair style somewhere before...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0eZjJZzNB4
pie in face routine too, how odd.
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Private Eye's arrived, coffee, conservatory and I may be some time.....
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I'd nominate him for an Oscar AC.
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I'm gobsmacked that NI were paying the legal fees of the two convicted crooks in this case. Came as a shock to everyone yesterday, except of course Private Eye who reported this fact four years ago ! Maybe the Met hierarchy and MPs need to consider which comics they buy !
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...I'm gobsmacked that NI were paying the legal fees of the two convicted crooks in this case...
Makes sense, if you think about it.
This refers to the civil claims which are still going through.
They are jointly defended by News International and the two crooks.
Obviously, any compo will be paid by NI, because that's the only party which has any money.
Were I in charge of NI, I wouldn't want an amateurish/low expertise defence by the two crooks to compromise my position, which could easily happen.
For the marginal extra cost, it's well worth paying my expensive lawyers to do the whole thing.
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These costs can be horrendous. J K Rowling was going to be sued for nicking the idea of a child wizard and a school from another author who proposed to sue for plagiarism. They were ordered to pay £1.5 million into court as part payment of JKR's costs if they lost. The case is not proceeding and was thought to have little merit in any event.
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While it's not true to say only the lawyers win, it is true to say they always win and sometimes the client wins as well.
Part of the problem is the client gets so bound up in their case, sound judgment goes out of the window.
I know good lawyers who have advised the client not to sue, but to no avail.
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Interesting point there Meldrew.
While the claimant can be ordered to give security there's no correpsonding restraint on a defendant; to do so would constrain his right to oppose the claim.
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Back on topic, I watched Cameron answering questions in the house earlier today.
As a Tory, I was relieved to see the bloke has got some backbone, and some of his replies were verging on what passes for wit in the Palace of Varieties.
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As JKR was assessed by Forbes as being worth $1 Billion in March, paying anything up front isn't going to bother her much, whether claiming or defending!
Last edited by: Meldrew on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 16:14
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I find the British concentration on this matter to the exclusion of everything else - except Ashley Cole's current third !Mistress in the Daily Mail - a bit xenophobic when the potentially greatest crash since 1929 is happening in Europe and the US..
Last edited by: madf on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 16:51
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>> I find the British concentration on this matter to the exclusion of everything else -
>> except Ashley Cole's current third !Mistress in the Daily Mail - a bit xenophobic
>> when the potentially greatest crash since 1929 is happening in Europe and the US..
Perhaps because its not happening? The markets certainly don't think so.
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I think the late great Richard Woddis summed it all up perfectly ins some earlier scandal.
Nobody put their hand out,
Nobody took a bribe,
Nobody was compromised
By acts you could describe.
Nobody got away with it,
Nobody thought they could,
And all of them were honest men,
And all of them were good.
Nobody bought a cabinet,
Whatever you may hear,
And all of them were honest men,
And all were in the clear.
Nobody did a secret deal,
Nobody was for sale,
Nobody bent the rules at all,
And nobody went to jail.
And all of them were honest men,
As white as driven snow,
And all lived on a higher plane,
And shat on those below.
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>> late great Richard Woddis
Something kept nagging at me about yr very apposite and amusing post CGN. I kept thinking the poet's name was Roger. And it was.
The poem rang a distant bell too. Perhaps it was published in the NS in the sixties... but frankly I can't think of a period in recent history when it wouldn't have been spot on. Way of the world innit?
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Funny i knew it was Roger, not sure why I typed Richard. Says more than pages of press analysis.
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And an absolutely horrific famine in Africa...this sorry saga should be demoted to "other news" now. Interesting in respect of press freedom, Police and political corruption, but it stops there...move along nothing to see here now....
On the other hand - I'm reminded of the similarity between Murdoch senior and the late Dear Leader of North Korea, were they ever seen together ? Ah yes,the difference, one of them is a rich megalomaniac....
Last edited by: R.P. on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 17:05
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... never mind the Mekon PU. Stalin or Mao would be nearer the mark.
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Hee Hee - all that was needed was a little green designer overall....
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The pictures of the famine in Africa certainly put our problems in the shade. What a truly desperate situation those people face. Almost impossible to comprehend the true horror of having your children die in your arms from starvation.
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The BBC found some time to interview the ex-president of Ireland on the lunchtime news....dreadful the whole thing. A right mess, not helped by man-made religious problems.
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There is always, somewhere in some part of Africa, a famine of this scale. This has been the case for hundreds of years. Now and again the cameras go there and show us, and in a fit of conscience some of us will throw some money in a bucket.
Does the root cause ever get fixed? No.
Will the biannual anguished hand-wringing ever fix it? No.
This one is no more dreadful than the last one. We didnt fix that one either, just move it about a bit.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 17:36
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>> There is always, somewhere in some part of Africa, a famine of this scale.
Not always, sometimes.
There are always a lot of fairly hungry people living on the edge, and the conditions for poor people in some of those desert Savannahs and even more in huge swarming cities would kill most of us in short order.
But big famines are another matter. The causes are quite complicated sometimes too, and so many government and other entities are involved that devising and establishing systems to ward off famine is a very challenging business.
In a way, on some level, medical progress is to blame because it has led to population growth. Some low-grade pastoral ecologies can't support much of that.
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The clown who attacked Murdoch has spoken to what is presumably his favourite newspaper, The Guardian.
Press interviews with criminals are frowned upon, particularly when the criminal is seeking to glorify in his crime.
Don't tell me, he's not convicted yet, and this case is different because, well, it just is.
tinyurl.com/3zzgc4z
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>> In a way, on some level, medical progress is to blame because it has led
>> to population growth. Some low-grade pastoral ecologies can't support much of that.
It's a shame said medical progress didn't extend to birth control. Surely this is the real answer to the problem, or at least a significant part of it.
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The problems in Africa are in Africa, and as sad as it might be there is nothing we can do about it.
Like any nation we have to concentrate our efforts on solving our own problems first.
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>> The problems in Africa are in Africa, and as sad as it might be there
>> is nothing we can do about it.
>>
>> Like any nation we have to concentrate our efforts on solving our own problems first.
>>
Not really true is it? We can with with the assistance of other wealthy countries stop a lot of people, mainly women and children starving to death.
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>>
>> Not really true is it? We can with with the assistance of other wealthy countries
>> stop a lot of people, mainly women and children starving to death.
>>
They starve to death because they over-populate.
In the end nations have to learn to shape their own destinies.
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>> They starve to death because they over-populate.
>>
>> In the end nations have to learn to shape their own destinies.
Or alternatively they overpopulate because famine, plague, war or pestilence mean there's huge attrition of those who'll support you in your old age.
egg - chicken or chicken - egg?
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Yeah but we cant can we.
Money gets raised, aid gets despatched, 50% of it gets misappropriated, 20% of that gets to those who need it.
Plus there is another crisis happening elsewhere at the same time, and attention/aid gets diverted to the one that gets the most press.
Attention dies out, and all the people get back to dying of disease/hunger/political struggle/crime/civil war.
Sorry, but all these "Latest humanitarian crisis" stories are just that - good press stories. As I said nothing gets fixed, but gives people a chance to look sympathetic and say "Isnt this a tragedy"
The root cause is never fixed.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 20:13
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I have lived through 50 + years of raising money to aid the starving in Africa.
Reality is we are helping warmongering nations continue wars and saving them the costs of feeding their own people.
So with the money saved they buy more weapons and the cycle continues.
And a Continent which says "Africans should sort out Africans' problems" does not apply that to the starving..
And yes I give regularly to Oxfam... so I don't take the above as an excuse not to give.
But I suspect aid fatigue is setting in...And no doubt at least 30% of all aid is wasted.
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African nations have levels of population that they can barely - and often can't - feed. They comprise about 14.5% of the world's population yet harbour 67% of the people who are HIV positive.
It doesn't need an Oxbridge degree to work out the root cause both those problems. Maybe if the world's leaders stopped treating them with the patronising and hand-wringing guilt fueled attitudes that are the norm and told them a few home truths it would do more long term good than any amount of charity.
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The trouble is, and this is going to sound really bad, is that its all a bit of a gruesome "beauty contest". Those who look the most pathetic on TV at any one time get the most attention.
This is completely counter productive because it engenders "aid fatigue" and diverts attention, resources and money away from the longer term aid packages that are designed to cure the problems, not just visible sticking plaster.
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All of these arguments may or may not be true. However at the end of the day human beings, women and children are dying. Common humanity demands that we do what we can to assist them. If our neighbourls children were starving to death we would all give them food and it seems to me this situation is no different. I am pleased to see the UK government is playing a leading part in the relief efforts and hope that other countries will follow our lead.
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Trouble is CG, common humanity is as rare a commodity as a shower of rain in the Sudan these days.
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>> what we can to assist them. If our neighbourls children were starving to death we
>> would all give them food and it seems to me this situation is no different.
Its completely different. you wouldn't be feeding them every day of the year, every year for the next 100 years, you would get the situation sorted.
More to the point what are *you* going to do., I mean really do, to help that child you have just seen dying on the TV.
One may think one can throw 5 quid in a bucket and save the child. One hasnt, all one has done is spread salve on ones slightly bruised trendy "of the moment" conscience, and spouted some words that sound good. Not come even close to resolving the issue, made it worse in fact, but hey Fine words are cheap.
>> I am pleased to see the UK government is playing a leading part in the
>> relief efforts and hope that other countries will follow our lead.
Cobblers. Its been done to look good and divert attention away from "domestic issues"
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 20 Jul 11 at 22:16
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>> If our neighbourls children were starving to death we would all give them food
I think most of us would feel social services were needed and the children taken into care. But we live in the UK and the support is there.
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Since parts of Africa are always in need of aid, one does have to wonder if its simply bailing out a sinking ship.
People starving is terrible, but they will likely be starving again somewhere down the line for the exact same reasons as before, which begs the question of why does nobody tackle the root cause, so they dont arrive at that situation in the first place.
And while individual people genuinely care about such causes, I think a great majority do it to feel good about themselves rather than because they actually think it will do some good, its about their self-image as a 'giving' person, like that disease Madonna has of collecting children from all over, im sure she loves herself for it.
The real heroes are the folk who go on over there and try to develop sustainable living for these people, not throwing a few pence in a pot at the Tesco checkout. In truth, to most people, its not THAT important because making a real difference would be somewhat inconvenient.
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"Its completely different. you wouldn't be feeding them every day of the year, every year for the next 100 years, you would get the situation sorted. "
I don't disagree that long term solutions are needed, I don't disagree that sometimes it all looks hopeless but at the end of the day, as I said common humanity demands that the richer nations of the world do what they can to stop people starving to death.
The issues are complex , there is little that we can do as individuals other than to donate to relief charities but it seems a depressing view of mankind to believe that those who give to charity are somehow doing it solely for their own benefit
At the end of the day of course it doesn't really matter why people or governments give, as long as they do.
What is the alternative to helping these people , walk away and let them die?
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We are as selective about where we send aid as we are about where we go to war.
I somewhat doubt a crisis in Peru would get the same coverage ( could be one now, who knows ), because most people couldnt even find it on a map. Its all very self-interested and fickle.
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On the Digger's apparent attitude to this country, and our reciprocal dislike of him, a fascinating snippet somewhere in the media yesterday, can't remember where: his father owned a small Aussie newspaper and the Digger is on record as saying he didn't have much money, but was a 'great journalist'. His biggest story, one that made his reputation, was an investigation of the First World War Dardanelles campaign, whose ghastly climax was the landing at Gallipoli. The date of that landing, the first major war operation involving the Aussie and Kiwi military, was named 'Anzac day' and is celebrated annually in both countries.
Casualties in that campaign from fighting and disease were very high for everyone, but historians have subsequently suggested that the ANZAC troops were used ruthlessly as cannon fodder by British commanders (among them, as first lord of the admiralty, Winston Churchill). There could well be some truth in that - warfare isn't a tea party - but in any case, a lot of Aussies believe it. One assumes too that the Digger's dad might have received some fairly rough treatment from British writers when he wrote his big exposé. That could have something to do with Murdoch's contemptuous and destructive attitude to the British establishment.
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The Aussies conveniently always forget two key facts, One that most of the serious mistakes were made by their own commanders, and two, more than twice as many British soldiers were killed than Aussies were killed. Even the French lost more.
True the whole campaign was daft and poorly based and executed, but eveyone has a gripe there.
And as far as Murdoch goes, in his home land he is reviled more than the states or here.
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>> more than twice as many British soldiers were killed than Aussies were killed. Even the French lost more.
That would reflect the numbers committed in the first place, Zero. One wonders whether the casualties in each case were the same in proportion to the forces committed. Even if they were more or less the same, the landing must have been a shatteringly rude shock to what probably saw itself as a sort of volunteer citizen army, a cut above our robotic downtrodden prole squaddies...
I'm not suggesting the Digger is necessarily completely right about all this, or that we have no other reason to be annoyed with him. I just think this may be a pointer to some unstated but important feeling of his.
Although Wiki flags the result as a 'decisive Ottoman victory', one of the Turkish regiments lost every single man. The Turkish army ever since has had no regiment of that number - 57th I think - as a sign of respect.
All foreigners are too tough for comfort, but anyone messing with the Turks is really asking for it.
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since has had no regiment of that
>> number - 57th I think - as a sign of respect.
>>
>> All foreigners are too tough for comfort, but anyone messing with the Turks is really
>> asking for it.
Except for the Arabs who with Lawrence's help (? overstated) defeated them in WW1, ousting them from Jerusalem etc..
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90,000 troops of the Ottoman Empire died.
Twice the number of the opposing forces.
Yes it was the 57th, the commander, one Lieutenant Colonel Mustafa Kemal, gave the order
"I do not order you to attack, I order you to die. In the time that passes until we die, more troops and commanders can come forward and take our places"
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>> What is the alternative to helping these people , walk away and let them die?
>>
Kick the 'arrises of the dictators that run these countries and fill Swiss bank accounts with loot, whislt having their families and cronies living a life of luxury ...whilst just down the road, their own people live in abject poverty and...literally..children are dying.
Instead of pandering to these murderous thugs, we as a country should be treating them like the pariahs they are....complete social outcasts... so that eventually through regime change there can be a degree of better government.
Mr and Mrs Average over here, unfortunately, by putting thier hands in their pockets, provide some short term relief for some pretty desperate people...safe in the knowldege that there will soon be a next time.
There doesn't need to be a next time in many of the examples.
Look at the state Zimbabwe is in...yet it used to feed Africa?
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>> Zimbabwe is improving,
>>
>> Just a little bit
Through the bravery of Morgan Tsvangirai (spelling?).
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Continuing the discussion upthread on Gallipoli, from Wikipedia, an extract from one of the great speeches of history.
QUOTE
In 1934, Kemal Atatürk delivered the following words to the first Australians, New Zealanders and British to visit the Gallipoli battlefields. This was later inscribed on a monolith at Ari Burnu Cemetery (ANZAC Beach) which was unveiled in 1985. The words also appear on the Kemal Atatürk Memorial, Canberra, and the Atatürk Memorial in Wellington, New Zealand:[35]
"Those heroes that shed their blood
And lost their lives.
You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.
Therefore rest in peace.
There is no difference between the Johnnies
And the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side
Here in this country of ours.
You, the mothers,
Who sent their sons from far away countries
Wipe away your tears,
Your sons are now lying in our bosom
And are in peace
After having lost their lives on this land they have
Become our sons as well."[36]
END-QUOTE
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I'm no apologist for Churchill - his WW2 war record has conveniently been air-brushed of many of his foolhardy and reckless ideas he had which cost plenty of lives. But if the powers that be had listened to him in respect of Gallipoli and gone some months earlier, the outcome could have been very different. An unholy mess, and I believe the Australians and New Zealanders have enough justification to be annoyed about its handling.
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>> having lost their lives on this land they have
>> Become our sons as well."[36]
>> END-QUOTE
What a great speech Londoner. But of course Atatürk was one of the great political leaders of the twentieth century.
Not exactly a left-liberal to put it mildly, but an intelligent modernizer who founded a secular state in which women had equal legal rights. He is often called fascist but that seems over-harsh.
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The Armenians might not agree.
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I was adding a couple of sentences to that effect when you posted that PU. As soon as I saw the ghastly pink thing I knew I had been shamed before the world. But I forgive you.
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Still a hero to the Turkish people - maybe that's a good thing, any country that has an attachment to its past is less vulnerable to extremes.
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>> a hero to the Turkish people
Yes. What a pity other middle eastern nations seem to choose heroes of another sort of stripe - smelly bearded religious obscurantists for example, or thieving oligarchs, or thuggish colonialists wielding an equally thuggish US as a scarecrow-with-teeth, or cynical and savage jihadist gangsters.
A clamorous, dangerous and distasteful reactionary rabble that makes Atatürk stand out as a great statesman, Smyrna notwithstanding.
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"any country that has an attachment to its past is less vulnerable to extremes."
Not sure about that - Serbia and Northern Ireland come to mind.
For a brilliant novel set in Turkey in the First World war read "Birds Without Wings by Louis de Bernieres
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bit.ly/ng6jxP
Link to Order-Order, com - Guido Fawkes blog: Phone tapping went on at The Mirror!
Surprised?
Nope!
Piers Morgan is in the kaka!
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>> Nope!
>> Piers Morgan is in the kaka!
>>
What a shame. I am so mortified.. I always thought he was honourable and upright and the trial for the share affair was unfair . Pure as the driven snow in my eyes..
Then I wake up.
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Heather Mills McCartney now says her phone has been hacked. It took her a while to jump on the bandwagon, didn't it?
Piers Morgan is being urged to return to the UK to answer questions about phone hacking!
Harriet Harman was spouting on BBB1 this morning about the illegality of phone hacking.
Really! If you had to choose an unlovely trio, you would be hard pushed to beat that threesome!
Last edited by: Duncan on Thu 4 Aug 11 at 09:37
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I heard an interview with Ms Mills in which she said, in terms, the Mirror hack rang her and teased her about the content of the messages.
I'm not for one minute saying the phone was not hacked, it probably was, but it's most unlikely the Mirror would have used the information in that way.
As I mentioned earlier, the idea is to get the information into a story, but in such a way that the 'victim' - or anybody else - doesn't know how you came by it.
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Link to Sky News
uk.news.yahoo.com/hacking-labour-put-pressure-piers-morgan-074533727.html
Why has the Labour party gone all righteous about hacking?
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>> Heather Mills McCartney now says her phone has been hacked.
Do you think she has a leg to stand on though?
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>>any country
>> that has an attachment to its past is less vulnerable to extremes.
>>
Like nazi Germany, you mean?
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...Bad choice...:-(...
By who? :)
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At least we get to read all the HM-Mc jokes...... Again
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Apparently, McCartney played 'We Can Work it Out' down the phone to her.
I like the guy's music, but - yuk!
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The Yard is now going after The Guardian over its coverage of the hacking.
I won't say I saw it coming, but some of The Guardian's stories were a little too far ahead of the game.
They know now - if they didn't before - that getting the information is the easy bit, using it without getting yourself into hot water is much harder.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14945377
Last edited by: Iffy on Fri 16 Sep 11 at 20:40
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Very good report on PM tonight on this.....oh dear...the plot thickens.
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I would just love to see those self-righteous prigs on the pinko Grauniad get a kicking!
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So like the Murdochs you would prefer that the whole sorry hacking story never saw the light of day because, without the persistence of those you call "self righteous prigs', the whole sorry affair would have been buried a long while ago.
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They, the Grauniad, "outed" the Murdoch papers for political reasons (Murdoch's support for the Tories in the last G.E.), whilst all the time they were engaged in the same sort of chicanery themselves.
Ditto, the Biased Broadcasting Corporation, with blanket coverage of the N.O.W. scandal and little and muted coverage of the Grauniad's mis-doings.
Bedfellows of the same ilk, of course.
BTW I hold NO brief for anything that the Aussie turned American, Rupert Murdoch does.
I think he is an oleaginous skunk who has no love for Britain at all.
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Ahh, Its all a left wing plot. What a peculiarly distorted view of the world you have.
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>> They, the Grauniad, "outed" the Murdoch papers for political reasons (Murdoch's support for the Tories
The guardian unboubtedly had a commercial/political (small p) motive to suggest it's a left wing conspiracy is a bit far fetched. Other papers were certainly involved in intrusion into privacy. The Information Comissioner reported on the issue at length and in detail in 2006. There are legitimate reasons for journalists to obtain personal information in the course of exposing wrongdoing by, for example, politicians or public officials.
It will be interesting to hear the evidence to the Leveson inquiry and I expect all the media will be found to have been involved to some degree in chicanery. But I don't think other papers were involved to the extent of the NoW. Neither were they involved in what looks increasingly like a conspiracy to cover their tracks.
The Guardian case will probably go all the way to the Supreme Court and I'd wager (though not a large amount) that they succeed on ECHR article 10 grounds. The chilling bit will be the extent to which an official 'near miss' of that type constrains other later investigative journalism.
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>> >> They, the Grauniad, "outed" the Murdoch papers for political reasons (Murdoch's support for the
>> Tories
>>
>> The guardian unboubtedly had a commercial/political (small p) motive to suggest it's a left wing
>> conspiracy is a bit far fetched.
A link to further discussion on this from Guido Fawkes blog.
tinyurl.com/446724w
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Guido Fawkes: the comments are hilarious. Is there a right-wingers thesaurus, where they can put together a whole sentence of McCarthyite paranoia? Rogers Thesaurus maybe:)
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>> They know now - if they didn't before - that getting the information is the
>> easy bit, using it without getting yourself into hot water is much harder.
This is the no1 perennial problem of the spying world and always has been. Gathering information has always been tough, but using it without giving the game away has always been tougher.
Bletchley Park ended up knowing so much, that they actually had to deliberately withhold or severely limit the information provided to those who needed it. Even to the extent of distributing falsehoods. All so the enemy would never twig the extent and sources of the intel.
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According to Max Hastings' book Churchill found it difficult to keep his gob shut especially when he was tired and emotional which seems to be most of the time....he was a real liability at times.
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>> According to Max Hastings' book Churchill found it difficult to keep his gob shut especially
>> when he was tired and emotional which seems to be most of the time....he was
>> a real liability at times.
>>
That would make him the only honest Politician ever known.
It also shows why politicians are born liers.
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"It also shows why politicians are born liers. "
Hmm..
Voters do not vote for politicians who tell them the truth - if the voters don't like the truth.
What chance of any politician becoming PM from 1997 to 2009 if they had said:
"You are borrowing too much money so we are stopping the banks lending so much.
The Government's deficit is too big so we are cutting spending and raising taxes.
Benefits are too high and we are cutting them".
All of the above are true. No politician dared say it - and some knew it was true.. But if they had said it, they would have been unelectable..
(See also Chamberlain - his Peace with Germany was what the UK wanted at the time...)
People could vote out all MPs who lie, cheat are corrupt and don't serve their interests. Instead we all know they don't.. They vote for laziness, absent MPs, corrupt MPs..
(see also Newspapers people buy. The NOTW did hacking because the readers wanted it)
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This is getting regular, i'm agreeing with every word Madf types again.
Just add my bit to his post, we as a nation have the politicians and the country we deserve, they are representative of the population, some exceptions obviously.
The sharp suited snake oil salesmen promised the equivalent of the feeding of the five thousand, and the lazy blinkered brainwashed electorate did as they were told.
Not just the years under the biggest liar of the lot, or the poor wretch who was left holding the baby when the liar realised it was all collapsing and time to fly..
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"This is getting regular, i'm agreeing with every word Madf types again."
Try taking your medication and don't listen to your voices :-)
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You carry on, i like hearing or reading the voice of reason, or the much maligned and increasingly rare good old common sense....things rarely heard from politicians, unless waffling for soundbites/votes.
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News of the World Hacking scandal. Vol 5 - VxFan