I was surprised but thought they would do something in the Capital to celebrate the new year.
And they did not disappoint with the themed lasers, drones and fireworks. Quite moving I thought.
Whilst rightly recognising the important role played by minority groups in this country I felt the BLM thing went too far.
Anyone down that end of the country get a sniff of the fact they were putting on a display?
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>> Whilst rightly recognising the important role played by minority groups in this country I felt
>> the BLM thing went too far.
Why? In what sense?
>> Anyone down that end of the country get a sniff of the fact they were
>> putting on a display?
I suspect it was under wraps until very late to prevent travel.
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Which bit? The recognising the role of the diverse make up or the BLM thing?
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The underlying militancy of the BLM movement revealed itself after the initial outpouring over the death of George Floyd.
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>> The underlying militancy of the BLM movement revealed itself after the initial outpouring over the
>> death of George Floyd.
I would identify two things.
Firstly the concept that the police/justice system, and perhaps in light of covid stats other institutions, need to up their game as regards BME people.
Secondly the existence of a 'movement' some aspects of which are of the militant left and have tried to hijack the BLM moniker.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 1 Jan 21 at 13:18
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Nothing wrong for me with BLM as a movement for e.g. lobbying and awareness.
As with all 'movements' all sorts of interests will jump on board. In itself that shouldn't undermine any value in the idea and the justness of its cause.
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"Firstly the concept that the police/justice system, and perhaps in light of covid stats other institutions, need to up their game as regards BME people."
That is of course a 2 way street and stunts that the likes of Dawn Butler pulled in no way smooth the path.
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>> That is of course a 2 way street and stunts that the likes of Dawn
>> Butler pulled in no way smooth the path.
What stunt was that?
The sort of speaking out that lead to a racist onslaught and the closure of her constituency office?
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'The sort of speaking out that lead to a racist onslaught and the closure of her constituency office?'
You know what I meant. Total agenda driven fabrication.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7LklefCUUU
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What did she make up about what happened, I only vaguely remember the incident.
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>> 'The sort of speaking out that lead to a racist onslaught and the closure of
>> her constituency office?'
>>
>> You know what I meant. Total agenda driven fabrication.
>>
>> www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7LklefCUUU
I knew she had said stuff about BLM and institutional racism so could have been either or something else.
She was stopped going about her ordinary business which is one of the issues of which the BAME community complain.
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It has been highlighted that whoever stopped the vehicle would have been unable to ascertain the ethnicity of the occupants until such time as they approached the vehicle.
What happened after that she skewed to suit her agenda. Abusing her position as an MP.
So lets park it. Happy New Year.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 1 Jan 21 at 16:49
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>> It has been highlighted that whoever stopped the vehicle would have been unable to ascertain
>> the ethnicity of the occupants until such time as they approached the vehicle.
>>
>> What happened after that she skewed to suit her agenda. Abusing her position as an
>> MP.
>>
>> So lets park it. Happy New Year.
I'm sorry but to make an outrageous statement like that and then say 'park it' isn't on.
I don't know whether it's actually provable that the driver's ethnicity was not ascertainable or whether that's just a story doing the rounds amongst current/former BIB. It doesn't disprove the idea that (eg Linford Christie's trainee) Black people are stopped disproportionately.
Dawn Butler would be abusing her position as an MP to anything other than highlight it.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 1 Jan 21 at 17:00
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Why is it outrageous? Its actually the truth and is provable as corroborated from a number of independent sources and body cam footage unlike her skewed phone footage.
But you know that. It was big news at the time.
The Officers were described as nothing but 'professional and courteous'.
She manipulated a situation to become a 'victim'. She highlighted nothing and it backfired.
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Without wishing to support or inflame any discussions, I thought this might at least be interesting to some.
I manage a team of sales reps. Some are men, some are women, and one of them is a chap of Afro Caribbean extraction. His parents came here from Jamaica in the '50s. Quite apart from that rather irrelevant fact, he's middle aged, he's one of the nicest, most sensible guys I know, very good at his job, and drives like Miss Daisy. He's married to a white female police officer, and they have two lovely daughters.
The reason he drives so carefully is that he's sick of being pulled over by the police. On average, and confirmed by his wife, it happens on a regular basis, 6 to 8 times a year, every year, for the 35 years he's been "on the road". In fact, I was in his car as a passenger a couple of times when it happened. He wasn't speeding on either occasion, in fact he hadn't done anything that could possibly have attracted any such attention, but it still happened.
In contrast, I've been pulled over twice in my life and most probably deserved it on one of those occasions,
"Routine checks Sir"
Yeah right...wonder why eh?
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>> In contrast, I've been pulled over twice in my life and most probably deserved it
>> on one of those occasions,
That's exactly my experience Runfer. The first time I had a faulty headlamp and knew I had. The second I think was a 'practice pull' on the outskirts of Chester; mentor showing recruit how it was done.
One of my daughter's Uni lecturers told a similar tale to your colleague.
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>> Why is it outrageous? Its actually the truth and is provable as corroborated from a
>> number of independent sources and body cam footage unlike her skewed phone footage.
>>But you know that.
I wish you'd stop telling me what I know.
Neither of us were there so what exactly was evident to the officers is surmise.
The bit I thought outrageous was the accusation of abusing her position. She's a black woman representing a multi-ethnic constituency. She'd be derelict if she failed to hi-light disproportionate stops of BAME people.
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You sidestepped it further back and then you want to dismiss because it doesn't suit.
"I knew she had said stuff about BLM and institutional racism so could have been either or something else."
You don't get it do you? To create a false scenario to further her agenda to the point of suggesting that Officers were being racist, knowing what sanctions that accusation can bring, is not the right way of making a difference or make any improvements.
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>> You don't get it do you? To create a false scenario to further her agenda
>> to the point of suggesting that Officers were being racist, knowing what sanctions that accusation
>> can bring, is not the right way of making a difference or make any improvements.
I don't accept the narrative that it was a false scenario. But neither of us were there so it's a 'lawyers arguing from different premises' point; we can agree to differ.
I'll bet she's been stopped more times than Runfer and I put together.
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I wasn't there but I'd be prepared to bet that she absolutely engineered the encounter to suit her agenda and to suit her stance as a campaigning politician.
That said everything, including the official figures, point to there being a problem. Colour does seem to play a part in the chances of being stopped, even when all else is equal.
Self-obsessed people like Dawn Butler who use various issues to further their own career are not very pleasant nor palatable, but we're probably better off with them than without them.
On a more personal note, part of my family is black. When we were/are all out drinking, and admittedly being a pain, it absolutely makes a difference if they are with us. Far more likely to attract attention, and not just from the Police. Landlords can be quicker to offence as well.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 1 Jan 21 at 21:21
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>> I wasn't there but I'd be prepared to bet that she absolutely engineered the encounter
>> to suit her agenda and to suit her stance as a campaigning politician.
How?
Was the stop itself in some way engineered?
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Bromp, I know she's a Labour politician and therefore you are obsessed with her righteousness, but I repeat, I believe that she engineered the encounter to suit her self-righteous agenda.
You don't have to agree, but you have no knowledge as to whether I am right or wrong, any more than I do.
So save your silly facetious questions for someone who actually gives a crap.
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>> Bromp, I know she's a Labour politician and therefore you are obsessed with her righteousness,
>> but I repeat, I believe that she engineered the encounter to suit her self-righteous agenda.
I'm more than happy to condemn Labour politicians past and current and/or their actions including Blair, various Education Ministers and Home Secretaries etc. I'd add Richard Burgon and Clive Lewis too.
Even if one accepts that she exploited the situation it's a hell of a leap from there to engineered.
How was it engineered is a straightforward and reasonable question.
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>>How was it engineered is a straightforward and reasonable question
Was she driving? Why then did it involve her at all? How did she have *any* encounter?
I've had two types of experiences as a passenger in a stopped car. 1) Sit there and shut up. 2) Get out, stand there and shut up.
But not her. She filmed herself grandstanding against a copper who was perfectly polite to her.
Why did she engineer that encounter between her and the copper? Because that is the type of person that she is.
You will no doubt reply, but just so you're aware I will not be responding. There is no point.
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>
>> I'll bet she's been stopped more times than Runfer and I put together.
Its all about perception* For example. Solidly white Essex, early 70's, white youth on Lambrettas and then a Ducati. Pulled over nearly every trip out, specially slightly out of area.
Leafy white middle class Surrey, mid to late 70s, white youth in a very fast quite new Capri.
Pulled over nearly every trip, often frisked, often by the same coppers, one of them even said "I cant afford this motor - you must be up to no good" That says it all really.
*on behalf of the police. Its not racism, its general perception.
And I bet she isnt even close to the number of time I have been stopped by the old bill in my life.
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>>And I bet she isnt even close to the number of time I have been stopped by the old bill in my life.
Me neither. In fact I have absolutely been pulled just because of the likelihood that I was up to something.
Her little video began "this is an interesting experience.." kind of implying it was also novel.
Never an opportunity missed.
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>> It has been highlighted that whoever stopped the vehicle would have been unable to ascertain
>> the ethnicity of the occupants until such time as they approached the vehicle.
>>
So when an ANPR equipped car scans a registration, it must give details as to the insurance, MOT and tax status of the vehicle.
It probably also gives the name of the registered keeper.
Now if one is in leafy Surrey I guess a Mr Johnson to be Caucasian. If it's Mr. Johnson in London, then he could be from one of several ethnicities.
Does the computer also provide a copy of the driving licence or ethnicity of the driver - again if it does then race could be determined before the stop.
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>> Does the computer also provide a copy of the driving licence or ethnicity of the
>> driver - again if it does then race could be determined before the stop.
When we were stopped on the outskirts of Chester the car was registered/insured in my name but Mrs B was driving. They knew where the car was registered and that tallied with answers to questions about where we were from/too.
Mrs B and I both have Anglo surnames, albeit mine is uncommon outside a few areas of the UK and hers is downright sparse. But then most people from the Caribbean have 'Anglo' names.
Barring one of us being 'known' and on the PNC I don't see how they'd have had a clue as to ethnicity.
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>> Mrs B and I both have Anglo surnames
At the risk of conflating racism with anti-semitism, don't you have a "Jewish" forename?
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I have no particular problem with the BLM movement, although by dominating debate it is also becoming utterly tiresome.
At some point in the future "blokes" (the gender that drink beer, like football, drive "motors", p against the wall etc) will become an endangered species. We can then start our own movement!
A new years eve fireworks (+ drones and lasers) display should be a visual and auditory spectacular marking the passing of one year and welcoming the next. Whether it is appropriate in the current crisis is a separate debate.
But it should not be an exercise in virtue signalling, and moralistic messaging.
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>>But it should not be an exercise in virtue signalling, and moralistic messaging.
Bonfire night is almost always an excuse for that, after all, burning effigies are to send a message, signal complaint etc.
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 1 Jan 21 at 21:59
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>> I was surprised but thought they would do something in the Capital to celebrate the new year.
>> And they did not disappoint with the themed lasers, drones and fireworks.
>> Quite moving I thought.
>>
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRDQU0o77n8
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I was surprised that Boris did not take to TV to address the nation.
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The drone display over the O2 was the most impressive bit - how (and where?) do they get them all back in one piece? or are there dead drones scattered over S london?
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>> Anyone down that end of the country get a sniff of the fact they were
>> putting on a display?
Yeah, someone in the family is in the PLA and they blabbed.
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Would of though it would be difficult to keep all that prep a secret.
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Normal circumstances probably, under what's happening now it's a fair bit easier.
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I didn't get a whiff of any of this... last night leading up to midnight all of the news reports seem to cut to a deserted London with just the odd person walking around.
Haven't heard it mentioned on the London radio stations this morning.
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It does make this old cynic wonder why they bothered spending all that money?
Of course I think that every year.
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I've never been able to stand New Year myself. The date changes, so what? It does that every night.
In my boozing, whoring and clubbing days it was the night I started to gave a miss. Extortionate prices to get into clubs and in the seventies some of the pubs even started charging an entrance fee on NYE. And when you did get in it took at least twenty minutes to get served your overpriced drinks, most of which had been drunk or spilled by the time you got back to whichever corner your crowd was crammed into.
By the time this "Auld Lang Syne" cobblers came on and drunken strangers started grabbing your hands I was ready to bottle somebody.
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>> By the time this "Auld Lang Syne" cobblers came on and drunken strangers started grabbing
>> your hands I was ready to bottle somebody.
I feel we were probably friends back in the old days. You describe my NYE feelings & experiences so well.
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>> I feel we were probably friends back in the old days. You describe my NYE
>> feelings & experiences so well.
My parents used to see in the New Year with the same bunch of neighbours (post 1969 former neighbours) until into the eighties. Same meal of Mums Meat and Potato pie - which, to be fair was a real delicacy - and same conversation, their youth, the war, current affairs. In hindsight most participants left over the DD limit.
Mrs B's Aunt and Uncle held a similar party which her parents often attended.
As a youngster working in London I tried various celebrations including Trafalgar Square; sick on dodgy pint, bitten by a dog and had to walk home to Golders Green. Another where I missed a certain shag with a colleague on the off chance a girl I fancied as a longer term prospect was at another party - she wasn't.
For years Mrs B and I treated it as a normal night.
We stayed up last night but only to make sure 2020 really had effed off.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 1 Jan 21 at 22:10
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I've never really liked NYE, not at any age.
When I was very young it was just one more b***** noisy party of which my parents had many.
By the time I was out and about I just couldn't get into any enthusiasm about it. I did try the Trafalgar Square thing but as R O'R said, that was just expensive crap booze which you had to queue and wade through crowds for.
NYE Parties just aren't the streamer and party hat crazy episodes that various Sit Coms & TV shows over the years have tried to pretend.
I don't like being touched by people at the best of times and the sort of hugging and kissing that goes on during NYE is likely to get someone slapped.
I guess the fact that I never had any money and did everything on a budget didn't help.
For years I simply ignored the night beyond slouching down to the bar of whichever hotel I was staying in at the time.
#2 daughter doesn't give a crap either and #1 daughter, who very much does, goes out partying so that works.
>>We stayed up last night but only to make sure 2020 really had effed off.
That made me smile. I shall probably steal it and claim it as my own.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 1 Jan 21 at 22:20
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>> That made me smile. I shall probably steal it and claim it as my own.
I stole it too; we're both guilty of handling......
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If any one says to you "Happy New Year", give em a kicking. They are lying to you.
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Glad it’s not only me then....several friends feel the same. When ‘ in trade’ I’d finish work about 5:30, home an hour later, straight to my local for a few beers and home by 8. New Years Day out walking early with the dog. If wet in my by now quiet local mid afternoon for a few hours or more, dog drying off asleep in front of the pubs open fire. Thankfully the occasional village drinkers, who probably visited ‘their’ local 4 times a year, had bogged off until Easter, and things returned to normal.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sat 2 Jan 21 at 00:32
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>> As a youngster working in London I tried various celebrations including Trafalgar Square; sick on
>> dodgy pint,
What quirk of bacteriological biochemistry always make the 8th pint dodgy? Its one of natures imponderables.
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Up here in Scotland, Hogmanay and New year has always been a bigger thing than down South. Much of it to do with the stereotypical bagpipes / ceilidh / kilt etc etc. More realistically, its a good excuse for a right good bevy.
We used to go away every New Year to a remote house in Fort Augustus - 3 different families / some hangers-on Used to park the car and didnt use it till we left again as copious amounts of alcohol were consumed over the period - but it had everything you wanted - games room, huge entertaining rooms, open fires etc. Even when kids made an appearance, we all still went away to this place.
(I have just googled it and its now an airb'n'b www.airbnb.co.uk/rooms/21745532 )
I have spent a couple of New Years at Center parcs in Sherwood Forest but more recently we have had parties with neighbours with, weather permitting, chimineas, barbecues etc.
This year? I was on a family zoom call from 11:30 and went to my bed at 12:15! And I had very little to drink - really can't be bothered drinking much now sitting in the house with just the missus!
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>> really can't be bothered drinking much now sitting in the house with just the missus!
Pretty much exactly what makes me drink so much.
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You know Bobby's missus??? :-)
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>> Up here in Scotland, Hogmanay and New year has always been a bigger thing than
>> down South. Much of it to do with the stereotypical bagpipes / ceilidh / kilt
>> etc etc. More realistically, its a good excuse for a right good bevy.
Please forgive me if I have already relayed this - it's my age, you know.
When I was doing National Service, one year (1956) my squadron was detailed for Christmas and New Year, guard, standby, etc duties.
After some debate it was agreed that the Scots (of whom there were quite a few) would cover Christmas and the English would cover New Year. Much muttering and threats from the Scots as to what would happen to us - the English - if we went sick while we were on Xmas leave, causing the Scots to have to cover New Year as well, it all went very smoothly. We got Christmas at home and the Jocks got Hogmanay.
Cross border co-operation!
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New Years Eve - London - Bromptonaut
