| Non-motoring > Boilers | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: zippy | Replies: 81 |
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Mon 16 Oct 23 17:23
Boilers - zippy
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Our 40 year old Potterton Kingfisher is due for replacement. Do I go for a combi for about £5k fitted or a direct replacement for about £3.5k fitted? At the same time I would like to increase our shower pressure which is currently awful. If we go for the standard boiler I will have a pressurised water tank fitted, though I understand this might not be needed with a combi boiler? Has anyone used a fitting service like Boxt? A heat pump isn't practical as our house is too draughty at the moment. |
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Mon 16 Oct 23 17:41
Boilers - Bromptonaut
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Our slightly less ancient 1998 Baxi was serviced on Saturday. It's old but solid and reliable and we can still get parts. Discussed 'what if' briefly with the Baxi guy and I think we'd replace like/like. A heat pump would not, I think, work without replacing microbore pipes and possibly some rads too. A combi might be more efficient than like/like would be a lot of messing with plumbing and, unless we re-sited the boiler, would trade a delay on hot water in the kitchen for a wait for the shower to warm up in our en-suite. Curent one's all good though for now. The tech suggested we replace the flue fan as the bearings are getting noisier than they should be. Domestic and General will cover it. Heating's the one thing I still have insurance type cover for. Anything else I can wait and/or replace for less than £600 but fast track when the heat goes off is worth paying a bit for. |
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Tue 17 Oct 23 11:09
Boilers - VxFan
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>> The tech suggested we replace the flue fan as the bearings are getting noisier than they should be. A quick squirt of WD40 quietens ours down for 4 to 6 months. Landlord is too tight to replace our old boiler and gets their engineer to keep on bodging it whenever it goes wrong. The engineer showed me where to give the bearings a squirt, and how to do it without even removing the casing. The immersion tank in the loft had to be replaced the other day as we were barely getting any hot water, and you could hold your hand under the tap. Tank was ¾ full of sediment and scaled up worse than a 40 yr old kettle. Replacing this has now had a knock on effect to the shower. Landlord isn't very happy, but no doubt will adjust our rent accordingly to get their money back when it's next reviewed. |
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Mon 16 Oct 23 17:53
Boilers - Terry
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A few thoughts. If your current system is also 40 years old it may make sense to get pipework, radiators etc looked at to ensure they are still fit for purpose (internal corrosion etc) Is the system single pipe or flow and return. Newer systems will almost certainly be flow and return - more efficient. Single pipes have a tendency to leave the last radiator on the loop cold. Updating an old single pipe system would (I think) be fairly disruptive, AIUI combi boilers are best suited to houses with fewer occupants as their water heating capacity is limited and may be compromised if (for instance) two folk shower or bath at the same time. They are best suited to 1-2 bedroom houses A larger house 4+ bedrooms) with potentially more occupants using hot water simultaneously is best suited to a conventional system with hot water tanks. Finally - with a conventional system it is fairly simple to fit a shower pump to boost pressure. With a combi system the pressure of showers and taps is limited by mains pressure. |
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Mon 16 Oct 23 18:32
Boilers - sooty123
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| If you've got space you can fit a shower pump to boost pressure. There's a bit of modification but this might suit your needs at less money. |
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Mon 16 Oct 23 20:27
Boilers - smokie
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My neighbour was a plumber and I needed my hw cylinder replaced a year or so bac., due to internal perforation. We went through what would be required for "hot water at mains pressure" and I stopped him at £2.5k as the direct replacement was only £800. We have an Aqualisa power shower which is great. |
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Sat 9 Mar 24 13:42
Boilers - R.P.
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| We have finally sorted our shower pump out - after a lot of faffing and 8 months after a new bathroom was fitted - it works !!!!!!!!!!! it took our architect nephew to resolve it after visits from an electrician and various plumbers ! It provides a good pressure now |
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Mon 16 Oct 23 21:13
Boilers - Kevin
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Had a new boiler fitted last week. Installed as part of work to combine and refit kitchen and laundry so it replaced the old Potterton which was in the laundry. New boiler is in the garage and is a conventional heat-only (non-combi) unit. Also had the hot water cylinder, pump, valve and controls replaced. Initial idea was to have a pressurised HWC but the existing layout meant it would involve substantially more work and expense. It was really just a nice-to-have so we'll wait until the showers need doing and look at pumps. Total cost by a local fitter was £4300. The Boxt online quote was £3500 to replace just the boiler in the same location with no other work so would probably have come in above £5k with additional pipework and cylinder etc. House is a 3BR detached with 11 rads and the new boiler is a Vaillant 18kW with 10y guarantee. Fitters told me that they've recently had problems with Worcester Bosch since they started using some plastic components in their boilers. The equivalent Vaillant units still use stainless parts. |
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Mon 16 Oct 23 22:39
Boilers - bathtub tom
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Had the system totally renewed in this bungalow I got last year. It had a tank in the loft that must have provide poor flow to the two showers. Got a 40KW combi boiler that's proved adequate so far. Alternative would've been a pressurised hot water cylinder at far greater cost. Colleague had a pressurised hot water cylinder that failed after around ten years, it flooded the house, resulting in them moving to a hotel. Insurance company said that's about the expected life of the things and adjusted the claim to suit! |
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Tue 17 Oct 23 09:46
Boilers - Falkirk Bairn
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5 years ago I replaced a boiler like for like. The reason was alternatives required needed floors up, copper pipes & radiators changed ................. money was not an issue BUT inconvenience & mess was. New boiler in/out, new pump etc 2.5 hours to get it connected. It took some 2.5/3 hours trying to get rid the airlocks etc. Boiler & pump £2400+ £400 labour and disposal. |
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Tue 17 Oct 23 10:17
Boilers - smokie
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My plumber was happy to take away the old boiler at no cost cos he reclaimed the copper from it (along with offcuts from pipes etc). He left it outside the front door while he readied the new one and it disappeared within about 30 minutes!! (I remember where my daughter used to live in Brum there were totters round all day long, every day, looking for building and other waste. Mostly quite useful as it often saved a trip to the tip but they should at least ask first!!) |
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Tue 17 Oct 23 22:30
Boilers - Ted
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Yesterday on our local group, a local cat lover found a nice ginger pusscat outside his house in the road. It was quite dead so he posted a pic of it in a box to see if anyone owned it. He planned to take it to the vets for a chip check this morning so put a lid on the box and left it outside his front porch. You've guessed it, it was gone when he got up. Some toerag expecting a nice pair of trainers ? Still, he could always skin the cat and make a pair of slippers as consolation ! Ted |
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Tue 17 Oct 23 23:18
Boilers - smokie
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| Reminds me of finding a dead cat in the road when finishing my paper round as a 15yo (or thereabouts). Took it in to school and gave it to the biology teacher, who was chuffed to bits with it. It didn't really cross my mind at the time that it was probably someones pet. |
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Wed 18 Oct 23 10:40
Boilers - VxFan
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>> He planned to take it to the vets for a chip check this morning so >> put a lid on the box and left it outside his front porch. >> >> You've guessed it, it was gone when he got up. Some toerag expecting a nice >> pair of trainers ? Was it a cat burglar? |
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Wed 18 Oct 23 10:53
Boilers - tyrednemotional
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| ...it probably bounced across the road... |
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Wed 18 Oct 23 23:54
Boilers - Fursty Ferret
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>> A heat pump isn't practical as our house is too draughty at the moment Fix the draught first would be my advice. Relatively cheap and easy to do. Heat pumps attract an increased £7,500 subsidy at the moment (although cynically one would observe that the installation cost appears to increase by roughly the same amount) and would be my first port of call. I’m down to ordering oil in 500l chunks because the moment my oil boiler shows signs of popping its clogs it’s going in the bin. My house is already EPC B though. |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 08:07
Boilers - sooty123
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Talking of boilers news.sky.com/story/all-hands-to-the-heat-pumps-government-agency-urgently-prioritises-electrifying-uk-homes-12986642 |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 09:03
Boilers - Falkirk Bairn
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Where is all the electricity coming from? Assuming the UK is producing Wind power is Scotland / North Sea and getting it to somebodyin their street in Worcester? When the wind does not blow, or blows at 2am on a Sunday, when demand is minimal what have we got planned and ready to deliver for 2035? |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 10:11
Boilers - smokie
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There's any number of infrastructure projects in progress, from large battery storage through to vastly increasing the interconnectors which run up and down the country (and under the sea). There are now many people who (unlike some here) were not afraid of smart meters who have embraced battery technology at home and are happily using time-of-use tariffs which move the load on the from busy periods to quieter ones. Next? :-) |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 11:13
Boilers - Falkirk Bairn
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A few years back Australia spent $500M on battery storage - it gave them some 10 minute window to switch other sources of power (Gas/Coal stations). The only storage of any value TODAY is pumped storage. Off-peak pump water up a hill and release it when needed. Problem for us is that the high mountains needed do not exist in the UK (small scale in Scotland but limited supply for short periods). Norway has made a success of buying Danish wind power on the cheap when there is over supply and pumps water uphill. In periods of High demand they sell the power back to Denmark (& the UK) At this exact moment in time we have good supplies of wind power, nuclear, gas supply, hydro, coal (ticking over) - we are importing French power. Our problem is that demand today is 35GW (mild & wet Autumn), we need 55GW in a cold winter day when there could be little or no wind. Press ahead with Air Heat Pumps etc demand figure will rocket should gas be phased out for home heating and increased demand for car charging. We do not have really any plans other than more wind power - 11,000 windmills today , 20,000 wind mills in 2030 - no wind the supply is always ZERO |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 11:40
Boilers - sooty123
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I don't think the peak is 55gw in winter now. But I don't know how much demand there'll be with more evs and air pumps. A lot of the targets are aspirational i don't think any of the targets will be met. There's only so much capacity in the infrastructure industry, it'll take many years to sort the grid for power to be where we need it. UK homes are miles away from being ready. Its moving at a snails pace mainly due to cost and capacity. Few plumbers/electricians fit them. I think the costs put alot off, its only 10-15 grand if you got that sort of money laying about but many haven't got that sort of money. I think 1 in 3 households have 3 months or less in savings. Only way i can see those families getting newer technology in their home is if the government increased the grant to 100% or some sort of sort loan where they could pay it back over a long time. Just look how long smart meters have taken, years and years behind for something that is free at point of fitting and a simple swap. These other plans are far more complex and expensive. Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 19 Oct 23 at 11:41
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Fri 20 Oct 23 16:51
Boilers - Manatee
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Road vehicles are another thing, but insulating homes and using heat pumps to heat them saves a lot of energy. Our draughty old 120sqm bungalow used 7000kWh of electricity plus 27000kWh of gas per year. My wife liked using the conservatory in winter which she heated with direct electric. The rest of the house was heated by the built in Potterton boiler in the gas Rayburn. The 210 sqm house that replaced the bungalow used 8900kWh of electric in the 12 months ended 30/9/23, and no gas, that is 25000 kWh less. |
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Fri 20 Oct 23 18:15
Boilers - Dog
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Our heat pump is being serviced at the end of this month - £294 :( Not been here a year yet, but I reckon this timber framed new build all electric 3-bed house shouldn't produce any shocks in the wallet department. |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 14:55
Boilers - Zero
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>> There's any number of infrastructure projects in progress, from large battery storage through to vastly >> increasing the interconnectors which run up and down the country (and under the sea). Err No, there isnt. There should be, but most of them are stymied in the planning and appeals process by the eco warriers - the same ones who want us to stop using oil and gas Last edited by: Zero on Thu 19 Oct 23 at 14:58
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Thu 19 Oct 23 16:30
Boilers - Kevin
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I haven't checked the figures quoted in this opinion piece but: www.thesun.co.uk/news/24448563/hs2-cost-billions-know-trains-net-zero-cost-trillion/ |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 18:30
Boilers - Terry
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As usual with The Sun there is the odd truth nugget, but much of it is garbage designed to inflame opinion rather than rational commentary on the issues. A few thoughts: - peak demand is 61GW - demand will increase 2-3 fold over the next 20-30 years - EVs + domestic/commercial heating - EVs will become a configurable storage device feeding back power into the home/grid - sand batteries can store large amounts of energy and cheap (in development) - hydrogen is not a home heating solution - inefficient, costly, technical issues There is no place for complacency - delivering the green energy generation and associated infrastructure needs planning and resources. On a timescale of 2-3 decades it is all achievable given commitment. The alternative is to assume it is all too difficult and carry on burning oil and gas. This will ultimately fail as global supplies diminish, and leaves the UK vulnerable to global market prices, conflicts etc etc. |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 19:39
Boilers - Kevin
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Oh No! Are you telling me that you need to read between the lines with opinion pieces in The Sun? Please tell me it aint true! I believe the point he was trying to make was that the people who were appointed to advise the Govt on Net Zero have estimated that the taxpayer will get no change out of £1Tn even with their wishful thinking. We already had the technology to build HS2 and it's a steaming pile of... What do you think the real cost of Net Zero will be? |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 19:48
Boilers - tyrednemotional
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>> What do you think the real cost of Net Zero will be? >> ...net, Zero...? |
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Thu 19 Oct 23 21:47
Boilers - Kevin
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| Oh I hope not. I have a fair bit of cash in units invested in 'Green' technology companies. They made me 8% last year, I want them rolling in it. |
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Sun 24 Dec 23 14:13
Boilers - zippy
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I had mentioned upthread that our boiler needed changing. I was hoping to eek it out to the new year - but it had different ideas and failed catastrophically week before last with water flooding out from it. British Gas wanted £6,500 to replace like for like - as near as possible re building regs - so moving from the floor to wall etc. or £7,800 to replace it with a combi and again move it. Local firm wanted £3600 for a straight swap - same as the first BG quote - but couldn't do it until after xmas. A couple of independent plumbers were a few hundred cheaper but availability was difficult. We decided to go for an online company - they had availability - and read the reviews. We went for iHeat who had decent reviews - there were a few bad reviews too, but that was the same for the others and even the local firms had the odd bad review up. We specified a similar set up to the second BG quote and it came to £3500 with us choosing a more powerful boiler. They used a local plumber / gas safe engineer anyway. Turned up when promised. Took 2 days to do the job. Left us with water over night. You get to know how good a company is when things go wrong. They delivered the boiler to the gas safe installer. He brought it to site and opened it up to find the wall bracket missing. The fitter was worried because he called around and it's not the sort of part that is stocked locally - the company couriered a replacement part same day - so it arrived without delaying the job. Then some upgrades we ordered weren't required and they cost £150. The plumber took them away with him and we were refunded without asking or chasing! (I had ordered some TRV's but over ordered as I forgot some radiators already had some fitted.) When checking the plumbing before the install the plumber found a leak to the pipework to the sink in our en-suite. I knew there was a slow leak as the vanity unit was damaged by water, but I couldn't find it. The plumber fixed it and added two isolation valves so we could change the vanity unit over at our leisure. Switching to a combi - boiler was controversial - because using two showers at a time can impact performance but the difference it has made to water pressure around the whole house is amazing and whilst there are only two of us here at most times, there have been five for a few days this week and no real problems have been encountered. (First world problem - the water pressure is now so high to the showers that the plastic roses within the shower heads - both Mira - were actually blown out.) I would recommend iHeat - good pricing - did everything that was quoted by BG including removing both cold water tanks from the loft and were less than half the BG price - for a better boiler - and an install about 10 days sooner than BG could manage. Old flue removed. Brickwork replaced - with bricks - re-rendered - though not painted. Last edited by: zippy on Sun 24 Dec 23 at 14:15
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Sun 24 Dec 23 15:00
Boilers - smokie
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| Did you consider a heat pump? I think I would have, if I had to do an emergency change now. |
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Sun 24 Dec 23 15:06
Boilers - zippy
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>> Did you consider a heat pump? I think I would have, if I had to >> do an emergency change now. >> Yes, love new tech and only one standing charge etc. But the house isn’t currently compatible - it needs money spent on stopping draughts and more insulation first, new double / triple glazing etc first. |
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Sun 24 Dec 23 15:01
Boilers - Robin O'Reliant
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Glad you got it sorted Zippy. Twelve months ago mine sprung a leak on the 22nd (The third one in four years) and our plumber managed to get round next morning and sorted it - I wasn't in when he called and the missus had to hobble to the door to let him in despite a very painful hip which knackered her all over the festive season. I couldn't be there because I was down the vets having the dog put down, all in all a lovely Christmas!. We had the boiler replaced this August with a like for like combi, £3400. Much quieter and more economical that the old one with a seven year warranty. |
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Sun 24 Dec 23 15:11
Boilers - smokie
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My Octopus online quote (to be confirmed in a visit) is £2715 for a heat pump for me, including any consequent changes. Though it does sound like, at the moment, it would cost twice as much as electricity to run. Still, the saving helps towards that. The website says: Includes £7500 off from the Boiler Upgrade Scheme Air source heat pump expertly configured for your home Heat pump compatible water cylinder Any necessary new radiators Any necessary plumbing and electrical work Labour and workmanship And of course it's free of VAT!!! |
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Sat 9 Mar 24 11:27
Boilers - zippy
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Would you e***** believe it. Ideal boilers catch fire.... www.youtube.com/shorts/wKzry6UQak Apparently 1 in 10,000 is affected and guess what - our serial number matches. Can't win sod all on the lottery, but this, I'm right there in front - Victor Meldrew is nowhere near as unlucky as me! Feel like calling the company up and asking them to remove it and replace it with a new one - of course that won't happen. Brompt. could do with your legal input please! |
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Sat 9 Mar 24 12:42
Boilers - Bromptonaut
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As you know, IANAL but rather have an advice background. My gut feeling is that, provided Ideal are dispatching and fitting upgrades at proper speed you're in 'stuff happens' territory. www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/ is a starter for ten... It sounds as though the issue is the absence of a safety cut out should the boiler run dry. Mine did that once - header tank problem - and before it cut out it banged away fit to wake the dead. Maybe different with a combi though. |
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Sat 9 Mar 24 13:17
Boilers - Kevin
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Which reminds me. We recently had a new boiler fitted and relocated into the garage. I need to move the monoxide sensor. Is there a smoke sensor near your new boiler Zippy? |
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Sat 9 Mar 24 13:34
Boilers - zippy
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Thanks Bromp! Worry is the fix stops fires but not the problem, if you see what I mean, by shutting the boiler down when it should otherwise work. Kevin, yes smoke, heat and carbon monoxide. |
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Sun 10 Mar 24 19:34
Boilers - bathtub tom
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>> Ideal boilers catch fire.... www.youtube.com/shorts/wKzry6UQak I get "This page isn't available". I've also got an Ideal boiler! |
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Sun 10 Mar 24 19:41
Boilers - tyrednemotional
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Check at: www.idealsupport.co.uk/ |
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Sun 10 Mar 24 21:57
Boilers - Ted
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I'm the same as Tubby Tom. The page comes up now but is equally useless ! What's this fashion for using dark grey font on black background ? Don't they actually want people to read what they're telling us ? Grrrr. Te3d |
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Sun 10 Mar 24 23:27
Boilers - zippy
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Try this link for the video youtube.com/shorts/wKzry6UQakg Last edited by: zippy on Sun 10 Mar 24 at 23:27
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Mon 11 Mar 24 09:10
Boilers - bathtub tom
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Found the detail on gov.uk site: www.gov.uk/product-safety-alerts-reports-recalls/product-recall-ideal-heating-logic-2-combi-and-system-boiler-range-2401-0138 Also Ideal site: idealheating.com/blog/important-customer-safety-notice Got a crick in my neck trying to read the 14 digit number! |
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Fri 16 Jan 26 21:05
Boilers - Bromptonaut
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Baxi mentioned previously is on last legs. It's been needing repeated attempts to complete its firing up sequence for a while. Miss B commented on it when she borrowed the house when we were away in November and it was very noticeable during last week's cold spell. Baxi tech came today and says issue is a sensor in the flue that stops it firing up if the flue's vent fan isn't doing its stuff. Sensor is apparently kaput, or rather wobbling. Part no longer available. We'll get some cash towards a replacement from Domestic and General and I'm 99% certain I want a like/like replacement rather than a combi. Baxi were, of course, hot out of the trap with offers of an installer visit/quote and I've accepted that but making clear I'll be looking at others too. Does the team have thoughts? |
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Sat 17 Jan 26 06:28
Boilers - ORB>>
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Last march (2025) Youngrovergirl said that the shower temperature was cold... Boiler was an Ideal i30 14 years old. Our plumber said ideal poor when past 10 years but mentioned ideal fixed price fixit service. Ideal wanted £459 as a repair doing everything extra inc parts to fix with a one year guarantee. If the repair not possible just the £159 call out fee. Our plumber (who looks after our buy to let properties as well) got one of his boys in the next morning at 8.30 sharp and fitted a Valiant in the same place with new flue and a filter complete power flush too All for about £1750. Came 3 days later himself to check and register and issue the gas safety certificate. Qieter definitely and can vary temperatures on the digital control panel. Most of all SWMBO is happy.. |
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Sat 17 Jan 26 09:09
Boilers - Zero
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You could probably revive it with some diligent hunting around the web for a suitable spare, most repair men are not willing or dont have the time to do that. But at the end of the day, if its over 10 years old, its had its day. Replacement? most pumbers have a preference (and they all seem to vary). There are many boiler brand names, but very few different makers, as boiler manufacturing has consilidated over the last few years. Stick a branded name in, with the right BTU, one that requires the least amount of alteration to current flue and plumbing arrangments. Make sure you get a power flush of system. |
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Sat 17 Jan 26 09:17
Boilers - Zero
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| Oh and all guarantees are dependent on having a new fangled magnetic filter installed somewhere, they are quite large. |
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Sat 17 Jan 26 09:57
Boilers - Andrew-T
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>> But at the end of the day, if its over 10 years old, its had its day. >> Our Worcester combi started to use water at 15 years old - turned out the heat exchanger had developed an internal leak. Had a new one fitted, plus a ballast reservoir, and it's still doing OK another 11 years later. Only probs are the usual ones to do with sudden changes of water pressure. |
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Sat 17 Jan 26 17:14
Boilers - R.P.
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Lived in two houses with Worcester boilers, they proved reliable and easy to diagnose and fix when they went wrong. We replaced the Gloworm that was here when we moved in nealry 5 years ago, beyond annual services has proved to be good. When we lived on Anglesey we had a Grant boiler (oil) the house was built in 2008 and hadn't been occupied until we bought it in 2011. The developer kept the boiler running over the winters to avoid frost problems. We found a very good heating engineer to service it when it became a little dodgy. He replaced the PCB on it with an upgraded one and it ran economically and reliably for the next six years before we moved to the Vale of Clwyd where the house had an ancient boiler. We bought another Grant on the strength of previous experience. No issues. |
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Wed 21 Jan 26 12:20
Boilers - Bromptonaut
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Quote from Baxi is £4155 inc VAT to supply/fit a heat only boiler. That includes £250 for thermostatic rad valves they're apparently required to fit. Boiler itself is £1448. Labour to fit £1368. Vaillant agent coming this afternoon. |
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Thu 22 Jan 26 15:44
Boilers - Bromptonaut
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Domestic and General who provided service on the outgoing Baxi will pay £750 towards the replacement. If I'd gone for Baxi's offer that's deducted from the quote. Called them yesterday to find out how that works if you use a local contractor to whom you were referred by (eg) Vaillant. First of all it's quicker and easier to speak to somebody in DWP about Universal Credit; multiple layers of press 1 for this and 2 for that. Person I spoke to 'wasn't allowed' to give me an answer, she needed to refer it to some other team who would call email me. Today I have an email from an outfit called Heatable saying D&G have referred me. Inference is that £750 only applies if you go through D&Gs tame people. Anyway was able to order a new Vaillant boiler for a whisker over £2k installed with 10 year warranty and interest free credit. Could have fitted it tomorrow but that clashes with other engagements and again on Monday. Arriving Tuesday. A couple of years interest free was useful as HMRC want a chunk of cash before 31-01-26 based on self assessment where fiscal drag had pulled me into 40% tax. Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 22 Jan 26 at 15:46
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Thu 22 Jan 26 16:19
Boilers - R.P.
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| I feel your tax pain... |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 09:43
Boilers - Bromptonaut
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Heating installer here today sorting new boiler. Replacement is like/like heat only so no changes to the timer or thermostat. Is there such a thing as a standalone wall thermostat that can be accessed via wi fi? Don't need anything fancy. When we're away in winter we turn the stat down to around 10 degrees with the boiler in constant and turn it up again when we get home. Facility to turn it back to 18 remotely would do all we need. |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 09:59
Boilers - Zero
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>> Is there such a thing as a standalone wall thermostat that can be accessed via >> wi fi? You mean as in hard wired to your boiler/programmer as per the existing interface but temp set by wifi? Precious few, they all mostly require a new control interface box at the boiler. Which sounds complicated, but aint. Plenty of wireless stats about you can access on your subnet, but access from the wilds of scotland? no you will need to set up a form of home automation. Last edited by: Zero on Wed 28 Jan 26 at 10:03
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Wed 28 Jan 26 13:44
Boilers - smokie
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After a failed attempt to get a heat pump quote I've gone for spending a few bob on some smart tech to control the existing system I went for Drayton Wiser kit, all WiFi and remote enabled (though it's own app) and accessible through my Home Assistant which gives even greater control (as I can automate dependent on all kinds of unrelated stuff). Other brands are available! I did the purchasing through Amazon on Black Friday pricing - Controller, Thermostat, 2 TRVs and an unwanted smart plug were £114, now seemingly a lot more at Amazon but similar price at CityPlumb without the smart plug tinyurl.com/4v2v7jh7 -some additional TRVs @ about £40 each My plumber neighbour checked what I'd ordered and I'd suggest you make sure you get what you need rather than what I got :-) Installation was relatively easy. The controller goes on a backplate which is apparently pretty standard, though as it happened it was a close fit to mine but not exact, so I had to disconnect the old backplate ( 3 or 4 wires IIRC) and put the new one on (2 screws) then the controllers slips in. The TRVs were replacing existing TRVs so no need to drain the system etc. I feel if you don't already have TRVs you'd need to drain the system and fit the entire valve, which for me would be a plumber job. The Drayton TRVs are somewhat pricey but I wanted it all to be under 1 app (as well as Home Assistant) So we now have full remote control of the system, incl hot water. It is a bit of a step change because till now our only real control has been via the thermostat in the hall. I'd never bothered trying to get the TRVs working properly before. It's still bedding in for us but we now have different rooms coming on/off at different temps (measured by the TRV) and different times, all managed through automations (sequences) in the app. It does take some thought as if (for instance) I have a bedroom coming on at 21:30 for an hour then I may as well have the lounge on, as the boiler is firing up anyway. And we're discovering that 21 degrees on some days feels colder than 21 on others - but we can adjust from out phones. There is a holiday setting which (I think) sets all the rads to 10 degrees to avoid freezing) but, as I discovered half way through the holiday last week, doesn't turn the hot water off. But I was able to turn if off from my cabin somewhere in the Caribbean... :-) And of course I turned stuff on again so we had hot water and a warm house on our return in the early hours of Monday. I would say that because I am controlling each room individually using TRVs in the automations the thermostat is only useful as a talking point. (Also lastly with Home Assistant I can do loads more once it is settled like turn stuff on and off using external temperature, anticipated solar generation, weather forecast, current energy price or a whole host of other stuff, if I wanted to. Even use our geolocation (e.g. once we have both been more than 100 miles from home for 4 hours turn stuff down/off etc), and back on again once we re-enter the zone!! That's next winter's project though!). Last edited by: smokie on Wed 28 Jan 26 at 13:46
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Wed 28 Jan 26 15:49
Boilers - Fursty Ferret
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| Yep, there are a million options available. If you can get a photo of the existing controls (both on the wall and at the boiler) I can suggest something that will work. Depending on whether you have a thermostat and programmer, or just a programmer, will determine the best option. |
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Thu 29 Jan 26 06:40
Boilers - Duncan
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>> Is there such a thing as a standalone wall thermostat that can be accessed via wi fi? >> Like Hive, say? www.hivehome.com/shop/smart-heating Failing that, have a friend/neighbour/relation come in to your house and turn the thermostat up the day before you come home. |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 21:32
Boilers - Bromptonaut
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New kit installed and working. Apparently the water feed into and out of boilers isn't a standard left in/right out or whatever. Installer's tech got it a about f first time but got the cross over piece in at attempt #2. Then had airlock from hell. No surprise there as the monkeys to whom the developer's contracter subbed the plumbing couldn't do anything without messing up. Those of us, still a majority down this end of the road, here at the outset in 1998, remember the toilet cisterns without overflows etc. Sorted in the end and Chapeau to Ant from Heatable for persistence. Should have been done by 15:00 and left at 17:30. Just need to understand how to use it with current kit/caboodle and sort simplest route to very basic remote switch on. |
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Sat 17 Jan 26 22:39
Boilers - slowdown avenue
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| Get this.new years day evening , the boiler goes off. ok ill take a look in the morning. Give the fan a few flicks with a pencil, and it fires up. That evening it shuts off again . Not too worried, think I've a spare one in the garage. find it. and has written on it , (working 2014 should be ok). So take into show my wife, who has started to show an interest. Remember the weather is at freezing and below now and for the next few days. can barely feel my fingers and drop the awkward thing onto the stone floor and damage the electrical connection. Try and swap bits around, but alas it was beyond fixing .its now Saturday PM and getting colder. Get on ebay find a used one £24 posted, delivery 3to 7 days. The boiler is in the garage with the flow and return pipes crossing mid-air one metre,in a made-up casing. Very concerned it's going to freeze up. but its going to get dark soon and attempting to drain it all down ,is just not on. so i seal up the garage door and fixed a radiator up next to the boiler and wrapped old carpet around the outdoor casing and hoped for the best. the fan arrrived tuesday 8 pm tuesday fitted it wednesday morning. What a relief to get it working again. celebrated with a nice hot bath. |
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Sat 17 Jan 26 23:20
Boilers - Terry
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Two types of mindset. The first continually compares the cost of repair with replacement and invariably concludes it is better to repair every time. The second accepts that things mechanical (boilers, cars, washing machines etc) have a limited life. In the case of CH boilers 10 years plus is realistic. Once it starts to fail replace it. Think of it as £2-300 a year, not £2-3k. I am firmly in the second camp. CH boilers almost inevitably fail at least opportune times (cold, Christmas) and any change becomes whatever is an expedient panic purchase rather than a thought through investment. |
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Sun 18 Jan 26 09:55
Boilers - Andrew-T
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>> Two types of mindset : The first continually compares the cost of repair with replacement and invariably concludes it is better to repair every time. The second accepts that things mechanical (boilers, cars, washing machines etc) have a limited life. In the case of CH boilers 10 years plus is realistic. Once it starts to fail replace it. Think of it as £2-300 a year, not £2-3k. I am firmly in the second camp. CH boilers almost inevitably fail at least opportune times (cold, Christmas) and any change becomes whatever is an expedient panic purchase rather than a thought through investment. >> The realistic approach is to choose the appropriate camp after correct diagnosis - some repairs are fairly cheap, others prohibitive. And there is the question of the disturbance involved in complete boiler replacement. Plus - in the case of a car, perhaps better the repaired car you know, than its replacement. Last edited by: Andrew-T on Sun 18 Jan 26 at 09:55
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Sun 18 Jan 26 10:13
Boilers - slowdown avenue
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yes always apply SODS LAW. new year , weekend, late in the day, freezing . it seems i have a fix it if you can attitude. Repair is cheaper than replacement. it's a bit like a car you could keep them going forever. Maybe this summer i might drain it down and replace the stop cocks , which I feel are going to be a problem |
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Sun 18 Jan 26 11:15
Boilers - Terry
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The optimal solution may - fix first failure, then if boiler is more than 10 years old plan replacement as soon as possible with minimum disruption - perhaps May or June. Weather clement, plumbers not at a premium cost doing emergency winter call outs, and time to research replacement properly. Alternative - one could be lucky and find that after the first repair it runs faultlessly for another decade, or it continually fails with repair costs at £200-500 a time. |
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Sun 18 Jan 26 12:47
Boilers - CGNorwich
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| Also need to factor in that modern condensing boilers are considerably more efficient. My gas bill reduced by 20% when new Ideal boiler installed. |
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Sun 18 Jan 26 14:16
Boilers - slowdown avenue
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I was lucky. This same fualt 10 years back. No costs what so ever since then. Previous faults one pump, capacitor, control box failure which my techie nieghbour fixed. 24 years old it's never seen a service engineer. 23 years in my ownership... Plan to drain down this summer and replace additives and stop cock. 00 |
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Tue 20 Jan 26 10:45
Boilers - John F
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Jeez - why are modern gas boilers so undurable? Oil burners for me every time, please, with their easy DIY servicing....and cheap fuel! Our last house (1980 - 2011) had a (?late 70s) Wilson Wallflame boiler and a Grundfos circulation pump. All it ever needed during that time beyond an occasional clean was a new bearing for the spinner (after being told it was too old and unrepairable I managed to locate one) and a new flexible fuel pipe connection, all of which easily repaired by me. No trouble from the Grundfos. Our current (and much more efficient - we use only 1500litres pa - 50p/l last July) Grant Vortex Eco, installed 2009, recently started producing ominous rusty water puddles plus smelly kerosene leaks. I suspected terminal heat exchanger failure. However, after stripping off the insulation I eventually traced it to a tiny leak from the corrugated condensate pipe just where it exits, and repaired it myself. The rust was from the metal base. Also, a new O ring for the Riello fuel pump (why do you have to buy ten at a time??) and the application of the brilliant Hylomar Blue sealant to all the fuel connections has solved the kerosene ooze problem. It'll need to be troublefree for another 16yrs to match the Wilson. |
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Tue 20 Jan 26 12:46
Boilers - Andrew-T
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>> .... (why do you have to buy ten at a time??) ... >> Simple, John, as you well know. The marginal cost of having 10, or any other number more than 1 or 2, in the packet on the hook in the store, or sent by Ebay, is small. But the number makes it plausible to charge the buyer a good deal more ! |
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Tue 20 Jan 26 20:07
Boilers - Fursty Ferret
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i ditched the oil boiler in June last year. So far so good, overall spending much less than on oil but house is warmer overall. Couple of expensive days when it was really cold in early Jan, but still slightly less than oil. It's easy to not notice how much you're spending on oil when you only look in the tank once a month or so. Main thing though is that instead of the house heating up and cooling down in a cycle as the boiler kicks in and out, it's a constant temperature. Electricity use so far today is £1.42, of which 14kWh is the heat pump. That's 7.3 litres of oil when you do the maffs, so about £4 at 55p/litre. |
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Wed 21 Jan 26 10:03
Boilers - Andrew-T
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>> Main thing though is that instead of the house heating up and cooling down in a cycle as the boiler kicks in and out, it's a constant temperature. >> If the house temperature varies noticeably, perhaps your thermostat is still a mechanical (bimetallic-strip) variety ? Swap it for a digital kind and any cycles should disappear. |
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Thu 22 Jan 26 16:04
Boilers - Fursty Ferret
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>> >> Main thing though is that instead of the house heating up and cooling down >> in a cycle as the boiler kicks in and out, it's a constant temperature. >> >> >> If the house temperature varies noticeably, perhaps your thermostat is still a mechanical (bimetallic-strip) variety >> ? Swap it for a digital kind and any cycles should disappear. >> I tried a Nest thermostat and a Drayton Wiser. Neither were particularly impressive, possibly down to the fact that the best flow temperature on an oil boiler is 70C and the thermostat was in the lounge. So much nicer with a heat pump - although there's a thermostat on the wall it's not actively used by the system, which just looks at outside air temperature and varies the water temperature accordingly. |
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Thu 22 Jan 26 18:00
Boilers - Robin O'Reliant
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We're happy with our heat pump, energy bill has gone down by about £500 pa since it was set up eighteen months ago. The only downside is the thermostat is a doddle to alter, so the totally non-tech Mrs O'Reliant is able to operate it (In one direction only, I need hardly add) Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Thu 22 Jan 26 at 18:01
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Wed 28 Jan 26 10:04
Boilers - Andrew-T
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>> We're happy with our heat pump, energy bill has gone down by about £500 pa since it was set up eighteen months ago. >> Current correspondence in The Times from heat-pump users complaining that they cost more than gas to run, and don't cut the mustard either - partly because installation cost is a lot more and any existing hardware usually needs upgrading too. Seems clear to me that hoping to extract more heat from outside air when that is pretty chilly is not a clever idea. Ground-source heat should be better, but not suited to many properties. |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 11:30
Boilers - Terry
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>> >> We're happy with our heat pump, energy bill has gone down by about £500 >> pa since it was set up eighteen months ago. >> >> >> Current correspondence in The Times from heat-pump users complaining that they cost more than gas >> to run, and don't cut the mustard either - partly because installation cost is a >> lot more and any existing hardware usually needs upgrading too. >> >> Seems clear to me that hoping to extract more heat from outside air when that >> is pretty chilly is not a clever idea. Ground-source heat should be better, but not >> suited to many properties. >> GSHP can cost between £20-50k depending upon location, borehole, or trench installation. It will be more efficient than ASHP as ground temperature tends to be fairly constant throughout the year. However it could take a few decades to recover the additional cost over ASHP. |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 11:49
Boilers - Bromptonaut
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>> GSHP can cost between £20-50k depending upon location, borehole, or trench installation. >> >> It will be more efficient than ASHP as ground temperature tends to be fairly constant >> throughout the year. However it could take a few decades to recover the additional cost >> over ASHP. However if GSHP were mandated at build? |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 11:56
Boilers - Zero
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>> However if GSHP were mandated at build? For GSHP the suitability of plot of land is important. For horizontal pipes/trenches, a large area is needed, modern plot sizes may be too small. For vertical bore holes, (sometimes very deep) soil type is important. Hence the widespread adoption of less critical and cheaper ASHP. Last edited by: Zero on Wed 28 Jan 26 at 11:57
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Wed 28 Jan 26 14:32
Boilers - bathtub tom
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Colleague has a GSHP, but he's also a well, which apparently is a good thing. Friends were evicted for a couple of months when a nearby property blew up (with a couple of fatalities) due, allegedly, to a borehole for a GSHP hitting a natural methane pocket that leaked into the house and ignited! |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 14:58
Boilers - Zero
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>> Friends were evicted for a couple of months when a nearby property blew up (with >> a couple of fatalities) due, allegedly, to a borehole for a GSHP hitting a natural >> methane pocket that leaked into the house and ignited! apparently best soils for borehole GSHP is moist, dense, clay-rich soil or wet sand, not old landfill! |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 16:53
Boilers - bathtub tom
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>> apparently best soils for borehole GSHP is moist, dense, clay-rich soil or wet sand, not >> old landfill! Don't know about landfill, but the area was known as Brickhill, so may have been very old brickworks. Definitely clay soil. |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 17:13
Boilers - Zero
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>> Don't know about landfill, but the area was known as Brickhill, so may have been >> very old brickworks. Definitely clay soil. Assuming then its in the Bedford brick works area, loads and loads of the clay pits were filled with rubbish and landfill. |
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Wed 28 Jan 26 22:13
Boilers - bathtub tom
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>> Assuming then its in the Bedford brick works area, loads and loads of the clay >> pits were filled with rubbish and landfill. I've known the area since the 1960s and there were no brickworks then. It's adjacent to a hill fort, so perhaps middens? |
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Thu 29 Jan 26 06:46
Boilers - sooty123
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>> However if GSHP were mandated at build? >> Probably make most homes uneconomic to build. Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 29 Jan 26 at 11:30
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Thu 29 Jan 26 10:27
Boilers - Terry
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>> Probably make most homes uneconomic to build. >> I would guess if trenches etc were dug as part of site preparation at the outset the cost would be a fraction of retrofit. Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 29 Jan 26 at 11:30
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