SWMBO found a recipe for a cake that required a brown ale, so we bought a bottle of Newcastle brown. I hadn't had any for decades, but finished off what she didn't use. I really enjoyed it!
Might have to re-consider my choices.
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It could be called Tadcaster Brown!
Newcastle Brown is brewed at the John Smith's Tadcaster for about 20 years!
I used to have the occasional bottle in the University Union. IIRC it was about 10p a bottle in the mid 1960s. A pint of beer in the Union was between 7p to 9p a pint!
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>> It could be called Tadcaster Brown!
>>
>> Newcastle Brown is brewed at the John Smith's Tadcaster for about 20 years!
Breweries are just factories now.
As well as Carlsberg Tetley's is said to be brewed in Northampton along with multiple other types.
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“Breweries are just factories now.“
What exactly does that mean . Surely breweries were always factories producing beer. Sure they are a lot bigger now and may produce more types of beer but beer is still the same product it always was and is produced in fundamentally the same way..
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>> are a lot bigger now and may produce more types of beer but beer is
>> still the same product it always was and is produced in fundamentally the same way..
Not the case. Sure the basic physics theory is the same, but basic consistuent(s) and process is not
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Beer is water malted grain, hops and yeast. . The product is complex and a lot of science goes into controlling the fermentation process but that is what it is. I suggest you take a tour around a brewery. Greene King do a good one..
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>> Beer is water malted grain, hops and yeast. . The product is complex and a
>> lot of science goes into controlling the fermentation process but that is what it is.
>> I suggest you take a tour around a brewery. Greene King do a good one..
I have and its not. You do know about differences in water? the things that are done to it depending on its source? imported grain hops and yeast from where? a speedier or slower process? Its a whole gammut of things. Most of which have now been over processed, standardised, leading to beer, which basically tastes the same whereever its brewed, whatever its called,
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It’s still water malted grain hops and yeast. Fundamentally the same. And breweries were and are beer factories. Science delivers a more consistent product but the process and ingredients are the same.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 21 Aug 26 at 09:27
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>> It’s still water malted grain hops and yeast. Fundamentally the same. And breweries were and
>> are beer factories. Science delivers a more consistent product but the process and ingredients are
>> the same.
>>
If production moves brewery, then it's still (different) water, (probably different) malted grain and hops, most likely different yeast (They try to transport/replicate it but history has shown it mutates), and in many cases different production methods. (They didn't move the Yorkshire Squares from Tadcaster when they stopped brewing cask ales).
Certainly changes in taste of beers which have moved brewery are well documented, (Hardy & Hanson moving to Greene King being just one example), albeit modern methods might make them more consistent).
That doesn't mean all beers got worse, just different. (Though from my experience in my student days, any change to Newkie Brown could only be for the better!)
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>> It’s still water malted grain hops and yeast. Fundamentally the same. And breweries were and
>> are beer factories. Science delivers a more consistent product but the process and ingredients are
>> the same.
True but are you really asserting that the product is exactly the same in flavour, texture etc?
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>> >> It’s still water malted grain hops and yeast. Fundamentally the same. And breweries were
>> and
>> >> are beer factories. Science delivers a more consistent product but the process and ingredients
>> are
>> >> the same.
>>
>>
>> True but are you really asserting that the product is exactly the same in flavour,
>> texture etc?
>>
I think cgn is fully aware of what point you're making.
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>> >> It’s still water malted grain hops and yeast. Fundamentally the same. And breweries were
>> and
>> >> are beer factories. Science delivers a more consistent product but the process and ingredients
>> are
>> >> the same.
>>
>>
>> True but are you really asserting that the product is exactly the same in flavour,
>> texture etc?
>>
I think cgn is fully aware of what point you're making.
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>> It’s still water malted grain hops and yeast. Fundamentally the same. And breweries were and
>> are beer factories.
Skoda and VW are cars, fundamentally the same. but in the 70s fundamentally different, and you could tell the difference. Now, produced in the same factories, only the badge and price is different.
Now you point was?
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I presume by water treatment you mean 'Burtonisation'? I wonder if they still do that. I haven't come across that faint whiff of rotten eggs you used to get with Bass for a long time.
I believe the Burton water, or the addition of gypsum elsewhere, also warded off constipation.
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>> Beer is water malted grain, hops and yeast. . The product is complex and a
>> lot of science goes into controlling the fermentation process but that is what it is.
>> I suggest you take a tour around a brewery. Greene King do a good one..
As Zero already said the ingredients may nominally be the same but there are many other factors too.
One is water, people said that when Guinness was brewed in London it didn't quite have the same taste as the Dublin version.
I doubt Tet's brewed at the mega brewery in either Burton or down the road in Northampton is identical in every respect to what was produced in Leeds. If Sam Smiths moved the slate 'squares' from Tadcaster to A N Other place I'd wager the product would change in subtle ways too.
And that's before the factory product messes about to make a few incremental gains from reduced production costs.
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I was unimpressed when I went of a tour of Adnam's brewery in Southwold. The water was 'Burtonised' (whatever that means), the malted barley was bought in, as were the hops. It was a chemical process, easily repeated with each brew to taste exactly the same.
They were unimpressed when they gave me a glass of their single malt whisky and I declared I thought it was a grain whisky.
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>>The water was 'Burtonised' (whatever that means),
added sulphate. It it said to improve the effect of hops. And now I think about it, Adnams does have a bit of a whiff.
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One of the committee of the Guildford Gun Dog club, has links to Silent Pool Gin Distillery. Prizes for best pups get bottles. Guess whos new pup (pick up next week) is going to be doing gun dog training?
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>> One is water, people said that when Guinness was brewed in London it didn't quite
>> have the same taste as the Dublin version.
>>
That was definitely the case.
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the taste did change when they moved breweries, same as when Boddington's moved etc. etc.
Btw, apparently some of Jeremy Clarkson's Hawkstone lagers are brewed in Glasgow (Wellpark)
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I had a Hawkstone lager at a wedding this weekend, it was the only available draft in a hipster mobile bar. Weak and tasteless was my conclusion, not a patch on a proper continental lager. Won't bother again. Went back on the white wine.
Newcastle Brown, to me, is over fizzed rubbish, wherever and however its brewed. Can barely drink a whole bottle of it without being full of gas.
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Regarding Hawkstone lager, I saw some on sale and bought a 10 pack of bottles for the raffle at the village show 3 weeks ago.
Somebody declined to buy a ticket because "JC is a racist"!
I think I was a fan of Newcastle Brown when I was 16 or so. Far too sweet and fizzy for me now. Not that I consume much alcohol in any form. I socialise with the zero Guinness.
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I drank lager when I was young but I simply can't stomach it now - unless I'm gasping, sitting by a pool and it's mid-30s.
I can't for the life of me remember the point when I switched to bitter, or why. But I did. And I had a pie and pint with my old man in Wythenshaw yesterday. John Smiths - that wasn't bad.
I'm in London tomorrow so I'll certainly have a beer with a client, but it has to be in a Fuller's and it has to be a London Pride. We'll probably have a couple (and I'm hoping, breakfast with her, too).
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I started off in 1968 on Brown & Mild. Manns Brown. In the Quart Pot or Carpenters Arms.
Lounge bar dont you know, not the pot room.
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>> I started off in 1968 on Brown & Mild. Manns Brown. In the Quart Pot
>> or Carpenters Arms.
>>
>>
>>
I was a Carringtons best bitter man. In either the Ruskin Arms in East Ham or the Three Rabbits Manor Park. Both boozers now long gone.
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I remember both of those RR, where were you living? Not far from Zero and Me I guess :-)
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We have CAMRA founded in 1971 to thank for the loss of alcoholic icons from our youth. Watneys Red Barrel, Double Diamond (forever working wonders) and essential at any gathering, the Party 7.
Thanks CAMRA - genuine not sarcastic !
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>>Watneys Red Barrel, Double Diamond
Ewe forgot Worthing E and Whitbread Trophy etc. etc.
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>> Whitbread Trophy etc. etc.
Remember the ad for that:
Whitbread big head Trophy bitter,
The pint that thinks its a quart.
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Trophy was the 'real ale', Tankard was the keg equivalent of DD, Red Barrel etc.
Whitbread took over various smaller brewers and continued to brew the bitters locally but renamed them all Trophy, presumably for more efficient advertising and promotion.
About 1973 Websters of Halifax, then owned by Grand Met, actually started trialling big tanks for the pasteurised substitutes - a road tanker delivered rather than a dray, and refilled the tank with a hose. I assume it was a real turn off for the customers because it didn't last long.
I see stainless steel tanks have now appeared on view in some London pubs for the "craft beer".
The boss and I weren't quite founder members of Camra but we were fans of proper beer in the following few years and were members for a long time. I discontinued my membership when they lost the plot a few years ago, they couldn't quite decide whether they were about pubs or beer and what sort of beer was beer - a lot of the 'craft' stuff to me is overpriced sterile alcopop.
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I used to use this watering hole occasionally when we lived in sowf lunden. I bought one their T shirts with "if he phoenix my pint I'll firkin thump him" on the back :)
breweryhistory.com/wiki/index.php/Phoenix_&_Firkin
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>>Remember the ad for that: Whitbread big head Trophy bitter
One of my favourite adverts (Abdul Bamir) I still sing it these days occasionally believe it or not :-D
www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCvckXYMBEc
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>> I remember both of those RR, where were you living? Not far from Zero and
>> Me I guess :-)
>>
I lived in Forest Gate.
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The few times we visit pubs these days it’s usually at lunchtime. I enjoy a good real ale but unless I can see they’ve already drawn through a pint or two I won’t buy. At £6 I want it to be barrel fresh, not the first pint of the day that’s sat in the plumbing overnight.
It’s also noticeable that a lot of pubs keep a barrel going until it’s pulling dregs. If it’s bad enough I’ll ask for a fresh one but often it’s just not great, rather than bad.
Oh for the days when it was routine to draw off a waste pint at the start of service and to stop serving almost spent barrels before customers complain. They can no longer afford the wastage.
With that grumpy old man attitude in mind I tend to have bottled beer when a pub is not in full swing and Newcastle Brown fits the bill as a reliable pint.
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I was on the other side of Wanstead Flats, Wanstead Park Ave, we backed on to to the City of London Cemetery. I was talking to someone the other day about the awesome fairs on your side of Wanstead flats. And that boating lake where people did their remote control boats - also remote control planes used to occasionally go over our house, I think they'd probably gone out of range of their owner.
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I'm not sure whether they still have the fairs, but the model boating lake sadly disappeared a long time ago as I loved watching them. The planes I remember were either control line or free flight, R/C still being very expensive back in the sixties. I remember being over there with the old man one day and seeing a free flight plane make a mess of a car door, much to the displeasure of the owner.
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Newcastle brown ale - Falkirk Bairn
