| Non-motoring > Gas Bills | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: CGNorwich | Replies: 23 |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 07:46
Gas Bills - CGNorwich
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Gas bills for most users are set to increase as standing charges to be abolished. Low users will benefit but costs will be loaded onto the bills of others. |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 08:11
Gas Bills - Bromptonaut
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It's time for the old 'why will it be different this time' question. Something similar, loading fixed costs onto the unit charge, was tried 20 or so years ago and failed. |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 08:42
Gas Bills - sooty123
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| Always thought it was odd having 2 charges, you don't pay 2 charges for most things that need lots of infrastructure. |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 14:04
Gas Bills - Bobby
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| doesnt affect us as we have a gas hob, but if you had electric hob, wonder if during the non heating months, it would be cheaper to just switch your boiler off and use the immerser as and when required |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 14:53
Gas Bills - Alanovich
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>> doesnt affect us as we have a gas hob, but if you had electric hob, >> wonder if during the non heating months, it would be cheaper to just switch your >> boiler off and use the immerser as and when required That would depend on the price of electricity per kwh. I ran this calculation just this morning funnily enough as the thought has been bugging me for a while, because I'm on Octopus Agile for leccy. My current gas price is 8.17p, and AI worked out that my break even electricity price would be 12.57p. The calculation I asked it to do included my gas boiler's (lack of) efficiency. So from now on, when I check my electricity prices every day, if I see rates below 12.57p overnight I'll stop the boiler doing it's hot water job for the morning and set my immersion on a timer. AI even worked out for me that the 10 minute burst for hot water I run every morning would be equivalent to a 60 minute stretch on the immersion to provide the same amount of hot water. |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 15:13
Gas Bills - Bromptonaut
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>> doesnt affect us as we have a gas hob, but if you had electric hob, >> wonder if during the non heating months, it would be cheaper to just switch your >> boiler off and use the immerser as and when required We looked at this prospect and concluded the hour or so the boiler is on morning and evening to get the tank to 50 or whatever it's set at was cheaper than E7 leccy at night. I'm looking at Octopus Agile as mentioned by Al but I don't think it would work for us. We can was/dry clothes and use the dishwasher when it's cheap but I think you need a leccy car or two for it to be worthwhile. |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 15:18
Gas Bills - Alanovich
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| Leccy car or a house battery is good for Agile. But I'll say this, my mileage has collapsed recently now the children have left home and I WFH. I barely ever need to charge the cars (I have a 40kwh Nissan Leaf and a 77kwh VW ID5). In fact I'm thinking of ditching one. And yet still, on Agile, my average price I've paid every month is always about 10p below price cap. I have no solar, no house battery, nothing else, I just load shift laundry and try not to run the oven at the worst times. And I've already been using the immersion when it's below about 2p or in negative rates. But I'll be using that trick more now that I've worked out where my break even is and saving on gas. |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 17:08
Gas Bills - Terry
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The total price/cost of domestic gas supplies does not change - it makes no difference whether the fixed costs of distribution are a separate fixed charge or the usage charge increased. In the UK average gas standing charges are £100pa, and usage charges £800pa per household. In future a typical household will have usage charges of £900pa. The bill for a high gas user using double would increase from £1700 (£1600+£100) to £1800. A £100 increase is unlikely to be a major financial burden (large house, higher income?). The additional cost is most unlikely to have any impact on heat pump or other efficiency measures. The big impact - low users of gas have smaller bills, offset by higher users who will pay more. This may be regarded as socially equitable. It may even enourage higher users to reconsider heat pump installation. Otherwise a piece of trivia. |
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Wed 28 Oct 26 17:25
Gas Bills - smokie
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I'm still on Agile and having spent he last 6 weeks or so away form home I've been watching the increasing costs but not worrying too much about it. I have 1 electric car for about 6k miles pa and that and the loa shifting meant my unit cost in 2025 was 16p, which I'm happy with. It will be more tis year but there's just the two of us, and she is quite tuned in with Agile ( - nothing much happens between 1600 and 1900). A diverter taking out spare power from the solar panels heats enough water over the summer and is still managing to most days now, but that will tail off so I have Home Assistant turning on the gas boiler if the tank of below a certain temp at 0700. Somehow I've been earning free hours over the past few weeks in their promotion and as I've not been there to use them next door has put his car on my charger. I still have 5 unused I think=, and they've just announced that you can carry them over till end Nov. I do manage load (lighting, domestic appliances and computer equipment mainly) with Home Assistant, for instance discovering recently I can save about £10 a yar just by turning off my Synology NAS for the few hours overnight when would rarely be used. My base load reaches about 6 kWh a day even when we're not there when there is virtually no solar. Two freezers, a fridge, routers, smart plugs and switches, and LED bulbs on and off at predetermined times. Which to me is surprisingly high and I may, if I can be bothered, have a look specifically which devices are the hungry ones. I was lazy and stayed on gas tracker and that nearly hit 11p yesterday! Last edited by: smokie on Wed 28 Oct 26 at 17:25
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Fri 30 Oct 26 15:35
Gas Bills - Alanovich
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I got off gas tracker earlier this year, thankfully. 8.something p at the moment. Bad but could be worse. Bad Agile prices at the moment, but Darren Bett tells me the wind will pick a bit up again mid-next week, and I won't need to charge a car before then. |
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Fri 30 Oct 26 18:49
Gas Bills - smokie
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| Gas tracker 11.06 tomorrow, ouch! |
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Sun 1 Nov 26 11:24
Gas Bills - Bromptonaut
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>> Leccy car or a house battery is good for Agile. But I'll say this, my >> mileage has collapsed recently now the children have left home and I WFH. I barely >> ever need to charge the cars (I have a 40kwh Nissan Leaf and a 77kwh >> VW ID5). In fact I'm thinking of ditching one. And yet still, on Agile, my >> average price I've paid every month is always about 10p below price cap. I have >> no solar, no house battery, nothing else, I just load shift laundry and try not >> to run the oven at the worst times. And I've already been using the immersion >> when it's below about 2p or in negative rates. But I'll be using that trick >> more now that I've worked out where my break even is and saving on gas. Looking at Agile again it's apparent that, and it's actually obvious, cheap days/times are those when wind/solar create surplus. Not had many of those recently!! Wind solar combined right now are approx 18% of demand. |
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Sun 1 Nov 26 13:42
Gas Bills - smokie
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I'm still on Agile but been here in Portugal since 20 Sept so it's not really made much difference to me. I have everything crossed that it falls back soon because if I jump from it I can't go back onto it for 6 (or maybe it's 9) months. Last edited by: smokie on Sun 1 Nov 26 at 13:42
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Wed 4 Nov 26 11:37
Gas Bills - Alanovich
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| Yes and sadly the forecast for the rest of November appears very still in wind terms. So likely to be a month over price cap on average. Not too worried about that, in the long run I think it still wins if you can load shift properly. Also my binlids are in their Universities and I'm not driving anywhere, so lower leccy use all round will compensate. |
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Wed 4 Nov 26 15:55
Gas Bills - Terry
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I had the wisdom (luck) to sign up to an Octopus 18 month fixed price contract with gas at 6.87p and electricity at 22.70p kwh in August. Current forecast is for gas 9,7p and electricity 30.3p. It is now unclear if prices will now fall - the Trump mauling in the mid-terms may lead to a more rapid end to Iran hostilities with the possibility of Hormuz re-opening sooner rather than later. |
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Wed 4 Nov 26 18:03
Gas Bills - Bobby
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I fear the Iran situation will get worse - he is an angry upset man and is going to take it out on whoever he can without being blocked by the Houses and Senate. The Jan price hikes really are scandalous , a reminder that BP reported an 18-year-high third-quarter profit of £6.36 billion. It must be really difficult for those who are maybe unemployed or low income and having to heat their house (especially if they are in all day). Genuinely must be a choice between heat or eat. |
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Wed 4 Nov 26 18:54
Gas Bills - Terry
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BP are but one of many oil companies all of whom are making very large profits at present. Prices charged are what the market dictates. Any company seeks to maximise the income for shareholders - indeed that is very explicitly what the directors are required by law to do. If the impact on the lower paid of high market prices is too burdensome this is something the government needs to address directly - as is the case with the £100 payment for the Jan-Mar period. A few other things yoy may like to reflect upon: - it is the lack of refining capacity which has a major impact on profits - as the price of oil increases, stocks held increase in value - these stocks when sold need to be replaced at the higher price - BP is part of the FTSE 100 - any pensions or ISAs you may have are likely invested in them - BP pay UK taxes incluing the premium put on oil companies - there was little sympathy for BP in 2022 when they wrote off £25bn after invasion of Ukraine - if the price of oil falls BP will lose big time - selling oil bought oil at a higher market price Lots of this is swings and roundabouts - particularly with commodities which are driven by events - political, economic and conflict. The folk to get truly angry with is the UK government which over more than a decade has failed on green and nuclear energy planning approvals, failed to ensure adequate gas storage, allowed UK refining capacity to fall, fiddled on North Sea drilling approval etc. |
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Thu 5 Nov 26 08:55
Gas Bills - Bobby
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Oh I totally understand how the free market economy works. If only our government hadn't sold off all our assets (and continues to do so with renewables) rather than taking a long term view on things. I fear the new batch of data centres being planned around the country will also have an adverse effect. (If they need x amount of water and electricity to operate and are willing to pay higher rates for them then where does that leave Joe Bloggs in his house needing the same commodities) The lack of gas storage in UK is but a prime example of catastrophic decisions, I wonder what incentives the people in Government received at the time to hand over everything to private companies? |
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Thu 5 Nov 26 11:09
Gas Bills - Terry
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>> If only our government hadn't sold off all our assets (and continues to do so >> with renewables) rather than taking a long term view on things. Public ownership of critical assets and services means the government we elect is seen as accountable, and run for public benefit only. Associated view - public services can be grossly bureaucratic, inefficient, with opaque finances, cross subsidies etc etc. Private ownership delivers high levels of efficiency, is very responsive to changing technologies and requirements, etc. It is vulnerable to gross exploitation if inadequately regulated. Dividends and executive pay are emotive often beyond their real importance. Post WW2 a socialaist government created the NHS, started a major social housing development and nationalised key industries - rail, steel, gas, electricity. Arguably far sighted action given the state of the nation post war. By the mid 1970s )30 years on) the dream was dead replaced by the inefficient bureaucratic high cost etc. UK was strike ridden and facing economic ruin - the sick man of Europe. That Thatcher emerged with a totally different agenda was no surprise. It was largely effective in promoting efficiency, prosperity, growth etc until the financial crisis in 2008 - about 30 years. Since 2008 the UK has spluttered lacking strong leaderhip with the vision and resolve to change anything. Reality - that every 25-30 years that which exists inevitably starts to fail, and needs to be replaced. With what is unclear - but looking backwards for the answers is almost certainly wrong when the world today is so radically different to that which existed in the "golden age" (???) before Thatcher. |
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Thu 5 Nov 26 09:29
Gas Bills - Andrew-T
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>> Any company seeks to maximise the income for shareholders << Yes, the trouble is that it can come to dominate all the other purposes. I recall a remark from my time at ICI when a member of the Business Group said (and I quote) 'we aren't in business to make chemicals but to make money'. As was said long ago, Britain is a nation of shopkeepers, and most of our shops now sell things made elsewhere because our shops are only interested in making money. Britain got rich after the Industrial Revolution by selling our natural resources - largely coal, iron, tin, copper, things we could dig up - abroad. Most of those are either exhausted or no longer in demand, so we have to depend on skills. The world is overtaking now. |
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Thu 5 Nov 26 11:30
Gas Bills - Terry
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>> Britain got rich after the Industrial Revolution by selling our natural resources - largely coal, >> iron, tin, copper, things we could dig up - abroad. Most of those are either >> exhausted or no longer in demand, so we have to depend on skills. The world >> is overtaking now. I thought that Britain got rich through the happy coincidence of: - the raw materials in close proximity able to fuel an industrial revolution - in particular coal, iron ore, wood, some other minerals. Copious quantities of (say) iron ore without the fuel to make iron and steel are no use at all. - education, banking and social structures which allowed the creative to thrive We did not sell the raw materials - we used them to build ships, railways, industrial machinery, factories, mining, weapons etc. Industrial, military and economic dominance is what made the Brits rich! |
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Fri 6 Nov 26 09:56
Gas Bills - Andrew-T
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| Of course, Terry. My point is that we are no longer able to do that, as those resources are largely exhausted. The Chinese are tying up the remaining global sources. |
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Fri 6 Nov 26 11:10
Gas Bills - Falkirk Bairn
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BP has lost its way over the previous decade & before - sacking it's Exploration team of 2,000 about 3 years ago as it went for Wind power only to start withdrawing from Wind when it lost £billions. BP last year were £17Bn in borrowings BP shares are roughly the same as 10 years ago Shell shares have roughly doubled BP was one of the 7 sisters - the Biggest Oil Companies in the world in the 20th Century - Big names Exxon, Chevron, BP, Shell, Gulf, Texaco, Mobil - some are still big names Chevron, Exxon, Shell but alas BP is no longer in the Big League. Gulf &Texaco are now Chevron. |
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Fri 6 Nov 26 11:49
Gas Bills - Biggles aka B_i_G
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| A $25Bn hit from its Russia-exit can't have helped |
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