Wanted to test drive an auto Nissan - the new Micra.
Local dealer says he has no auto demo and to call Nissan UK as they can't help.
Nissan UK, after much faff, tell me today the local dealer has no auto demo (yes, that's why I called you), but another dealer does. They expect me to drive 48 miles to that dealer.
I know they don't sell so many autos, but as I'm not prepared to travel 100 miles just to try the car they won't be selling one to me either.
Still, when I tried to test drive an auto Skoda the local dealer also had no demo and no ideas other than trying the SEAT dealer down the road "as it's the same box". The SEAT dealer had no auto demo...
The customer is not king. Not even minor princeling as far as I can see.
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Save you the trouble, there's no contest, dsg is the future! :-)
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I was concerned about tales of lag pulling away at roundabouts with the dsg. Sounds like the kind of thing you need to try for yourself and was unhappy about lashing out thousands on something I might hate without trying it.
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Yeah you're right. I'm surprised your Skoda dealer couldn't oblige - there's a major push on the fabia vrs and it only comes in dsg flavour. All the dealers here have one as a demo.
Yeti's live up to their names right enough, more chance of taking a Bristol fighter out for some exercise.
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>> I was concerned about tales of lag pulling away at roundabouts with the dsg.
I had a Touran with DSG and it showed exactly these characteristics. As I do most of my driving in town, it just wasn't acceptable. I traded it in for a Galaxy with TC auto after 2 years.
Until they can iron that problem out, I won't be buying DSG again.
Does anyone know if this happens with Ford Powershift too?
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>> Does anyone know if this happens with Ford Powershift too?
Happens with all automatics, they don't know this is a roundabout, they're thinking you're easing off on the motorway. When you get back on the power in the 2 different situations you want gentle acceleration on the motorway as the hazard clears, preserving economy, but on the roundabout you want to accelerate slightly stronger than that.
If you're not telling it i advance via tiptronic or flappy paddles that you want a lower gear, the first the gearbox knows is when you get back on the power a bit more firmly.
It's the right behaviour really, how annoying would it be if autoboxes dropped to 2nd every time you eased off on the motorway. No shift delays at roundabouts, but damn annoying on normal driving!
EDIT: maybe manufacturers could cook up some intelligence with forward facing radar like for auto cruise control that maintains the gap - if there's a car ahead, stay in a higher gear, if that suddenly disappears into the distance rapidly, assume we're going to do the same in a few seconds so change down now?
Last edited by: Skoda on Thu 10 Mar 11 at 10:33
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>> >> Does anyone know if this happens with Ford Powershift too?
>>
>> Happens with all automatics,
Not with a good engine matched traditional torque converter auto it doesn't.
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>>>Not with a good engine matched traditional torque converter auto it doesn't.
Quite... not owned an auto in a while but thinking of V6 Granada, V6 Renault, V8 Rovers etc never had an issue in town circumstances... in fact that's where they were at their best. Another case of progress going backwards??
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>> V6 Granada
You must be joking FL? my grandpa had one of those then my mum ran it for a while. That wasn't a good autobox.
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Perhaps his wasn't. My MkII and F senior's MkI were both fine in respect of the town issues being mentioned.
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Still some decent torque converter autos about although it seems split about half and half. When we were looking for the misses car, both the Sirion and the i10 auto are proper ones. She drove several automated manuals and she swore she would never drive one again.
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>> Not with a good engine matched traditional torque converter auto it doesn't.
Aye it does. You don't get many a finer engine than a BMW M52TUB2.8, to use it's Sunday name. Coupled to one of ZF's finest, a slick changing traditional torque convertor auto with oil pressure controlled gear selection.
Has inputs from all sorts of sensors (temperature, inclinometer, loads of other inputs, this is pre-canbus too) - it down shifts on a steep downhill for engine braking (unless you keep on the throttle), it knows to start off in 2nd in the snow etc. etc.
If you sail up to a roundabout on the overrun in that, then give it some welly (but not enough as trip the kickdown switch), it'll start to move then it'll almost immediately kickdown. If you give it some more welly while waiting on the gearchange, it'll kickdown again. It'll then launch you like only a RWD can do, straight into next week :-)
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So does it happen with Ford Powershift? Anyone know? Lots of comment there but no real world experience with Powershift.
I find my Galaxy with TC auto far more responsive when setting of from standstill than the DSG Touran.
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>> EDIT: maybe manufacturers could cook up some intelligence with forward facing radar like for auto
>> cruise control that maintains the gap - if there's a car ahead, stay in a
>> higher gear, if that suddenly disappears into the distance rapidly, assume we're going to do
>> the same in a few seconds so change down now?
I'll stick to manual thanks - at least until auto becomes more economical.
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>> Happens with all automatics,
The (now old) 5 speed box in my Mercedes (now old) C270CDi works utterly perfectly - no lag from rest, no un-neccessary down shifting but will shift readily when needed, and no gear-shifting mid corner.
I gather there are all sorts of issues with the latest versions of the 7 speed box, particualrly as it shifts itself into neutral at rest and then re-engages drive when the gas pedal is pressed, with an obvious delay.
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"I was concerned about tales of lag pulling away at roundabouts with the dsg"
I have this fault/feature with an A3 - quite dangerous at junctions, but learn to live with it as otherwise gearbox is fantastic - however my son who has a Golf Gti (petrol) with dsg never experiences the lag. Maybe it's diesel related, by which I mean software is tweaked to protect transmission from higher torque...?
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See if there is a newish can-you-speak Micra near you for sale via Autotrader, and try that.
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I remember a neighbour of mine wanted to test drive some bonkers top of the range Renault (3L Laguna, I think). There wasn't one in the UK and he went to motor show and button-holed a Renault exec and he said that it was a "flagship" car that they didn't actually expect anyone to buy!
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if no dealer can be bothered to stock one what would that tell you if it developed a problem?
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>> if no dealer can be bothered to stock one what would that tell you if
>> it developed a problem?
Well they could say, truthfully this time, "Well Sir, we have never seen that happen before"
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If the OP is THAT keen on the car, id go see the one thats available, choices are few, regardless of the rights or wrongs of it.
I found it easy to get a test drive of all the auto versions of cars my wife wanted to try, even managing to get a back-to-back comparison across the two main contenders.
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Agree with Stu. 48mls each way is nothing to try a car you want that, if it suits, may be with you many years. After all someone on here the other day made a 430ml round trip just to buy an old table!
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>>48mls each way is nothing to try a car you want that<<
Afirmative ... I went to see a V 480 in Bagshot, Surrey from Truro a few years back (didn't buy)
And a Saab 900 in Swanley, Kent from Truro (did buy) I'd go to Pictland for 'the right mota'.
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Having slept on it I suppose, grudgingly, you're all right. I'll have to trawl out to Wisbech of all places I guess.
This is the trouble with owning cars previously where the dealers were exemplary - it means that later dealers leave a sour taste, where in fact they're just doing what 99% of marques do I guess.
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>>>Not with a good engine matched traditional torque converter auto it doesn't.
+1
Torque converter autos are still the best. I still don't understand why the automated manual concept was introduced. Instead of being best of both worlds, they turned worst of both worlds.
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>>Instead of being best of both worlds, they turned worst of both worlds.<<
Afirmative ... I'ma looking at Suzuki RX4, Mazda 3 auto's to replace my auto Almera,
but if they came with that automated thingamajig, I'd knock the idea on the head.
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In case you meant Suzuki SX4, it uses torque converter.
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>>In case you meant Suzuki SX4, it uses torque converter<<
Hehe! - I've also been looking at the Rav 4, it's easy to become befuddled at my advanced age :)
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Don't rule out DSG. Apart from the town issue discussed here, it's is utterly stunning. I love it and will jump on one as soon as they've sorted out the one "glitch". I just couldn't live with it now as I rarely venture out of town, but when I did, well wow. The gearchanges are way smoother and quicker than TC, it's an absolute joy.
If I were a daily distance driver, I'd have DSG again like a shot. Preferably in a Skoda Superb estate with the most powerful diesel engine available..............
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Would you want potential customers trying out an automated manual during a proper test drive...you'd never sell one.
That's why there's no demo's.
Some customers might be content to go the route the salesman prefers, you know the one (no hill starts, no real traffic, no cut and thrust roundabouts) designed to show the thing off at it's best, but there would be a few like us who actually test drove the thing.
By the way, nearly all makes of trucks have these boxes now, about the only one that's capable of being in the right gear almost every time is Volvo, the rest of them?...about as good as the cars described.
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>>Would you want potential customers trying out an automated manual during a proper test drive...you'd never sell one<<
Interesting, I road-tested a Citroen C3 'Sensodrive' about 6 years ago, I actually found it to be quite spunky compared to a slushbox, I didn't buy the critter though because I just know my wife (know what I mean)
she would have come to grief, sooner, rather than later!
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>> I didn't buy the critter though because
>> I just know my wife (know what I mean)
>> she would have come to grief, sooner, rather than later!
Don't mention women drivers Dog, you'll incur the wrath of Pat :)
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>>Don't mention women drivers Dog, you'll incur the wrath of Pat :)<<
Aye! ... she's left handed to boot (wifey, not Pat) - quite interesting when I was teaching her to drive,
turn left here dorling I sez as we approached Brockley roundabout in sowf lunden ... she turns right!
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I'm not a woman driver...I'm a lorry driver:)
Pat
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Right, here's my tu'pence worth, based on personal experience.
All transmissions have some delay in take up, which is of course most noticeable in slow-moving stop-start traffic but especially entering roundabouts:
1. In a manual, it is the delay in you letting the clutch in. These are the most controllable, but a complete pain in the Rs in heavy traffic. I couldn't drive one day to day, but would be my choice for a weekend fun car.
2. In a TC auto there is hesitancy between you applying the accelerator, and the engine repsonding. Slight, but it does happen. I've had 5-speed and 7-speed Merc autos (amongst others) and don't find much difference between the two - the 7-speed maybe ever so slightly slower.
3. Twin clutch automated manuals
A. VW DSG. Drove one briefly years ago in a Golf when they first came out (2003?), but the test drive was of the wrong traffic conditions, so I can't draw any conclusions. I read that the later ones drive better. Some reliability horror stories - but how many in reality when you consider the millions now sold?
B. Ford/Getrag Powershift. Slight delay, but easily of an acceptable variety, and only when entering roundabouts (the 'box has 'creep'). You just have to anticipate and apply the loud pedal a fraction of a split second earlier. I reckon most drivers may not even notice it.
4. Single clutch automated manuals. I've driven both Smart and PSA versions. The PSA is better than the Smart, but these are the most compromised, in my book.
5. CVT. Delay comparable to a TC auto, but the whining, oh the whining! No thanks!
The trade-off with all transmissions is the cost (both purchase and fuel economy) -V- the users requirements.
Manuals are cheapest in purchase, and virtually cheapest in fuel use, but won't suit town users or those who see driving as just a means of getting from A to B with minimum hassle.
TC autos are generally more expensive in purchase and the most expensive in fuel use (and thus emissions and BiK).
Twin clutch automated manuals. Generally the most expensive, but almost as good as a manual in fuel consumption. In my book they are 'probably' the best compromise.
Single clutch automated manuals. Not as expensive as twin clutch and as good on economy as any gearbox, but most compromised in use, and are really looking a bit dated against the best twin-clutches.
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>>You just have to anticipate and apply the loud pedal a fraction of a split second earlier<<
This is what would concern me Re: wifey - she is totally incapable of thinking outside the box, I'm not saying she's daffi or anything - just intractable & unpractical :)
>>but the whining, oh the whining! No thanks!<<
Estoy de acuerdo con lo que dijiste - owned a Civic & Accord.
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I think at the end of the day a test drive is required. I wouldn't buy any car without a test, but many people do.
Which brings us back to the OP's question. If the dealer can't provide a test, try another dealer. And if the manufacturer can't then try another car (and tell the manufacturer why you're not buying their product).
From what I've read the new Micra is not one of the best small cars on the market ...
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I found DSG great on the move but hated the pull away lag and very little creep so tight parking etc is hard. It put me off a new vrs. On the move though brilliant with rapid, seemless changes. I don't know what long term reliability will be like though.
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How do you get a test drive in an auto? - Skoda
