www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30670746
The ship was on its way to Germany when it ran on to the Brambles bank, in the entrance to Southampton Water, at about 21:30 GMT, the RNLI said.
The ship's crew are being rescued from the water and onboard the stricken vessel, which is listing at 45 degrees.
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Looks quite close to a big illuminated pole warning about the bank??
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I only just managed to clear Bramble Bank with half a metre to spare in a small sailing boat last year, its so shallow that once a year at low tide the locals play cricket on it.
Its a well known well marked navigational hazard (tho it does shift about a bit along the edges)
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>> Who let him in?
He was leaving actually. From Southampton Eastern Docks, where they load up with cars from Jaguar Land Rover at Castle Bromwich or Halewood, and Mini at Cowley - all ferried in by rail.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fa5KkRKQlU
Funnily enough most of wednesdays, thursdays and fridays rail movements were cancelled. It can't have been that full.
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>> He was leaving actually. From Southampton Eastern Docks, where they load up with cars from
>> Jaguar Land Rover at Castle Bromwich or Halewood, and Mini at Cowley - all ferried
>> in by rail.
Round there in June having watched Miss B and her chap's family in the Round the Island Race. Van was in New Forest and we parked at Hythe to avoid the masses in S'oton.
Visible from Hythe ferry route, on east side of the water, is a multi-storey car park of a size that could serve a large out of town shopping area. At the time it was pretty well full of JLR and Mini products and, IIRC, it looked like a 24/7 operation with vehicles being moved around at 22:30 on a Saturday.
Might even have posted here on subject.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 4 Jan 15 at 10:51
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>> Looks quite close to a big illuminated pole warning about the bank??
The big illuminated "pole" is actually on shore, its the coastguard lookout tower at Calshot, now manned by volunteers, friends of mine (the ones who own the yacht I sometimes crew for) do lookout shifts up there. Its only manned during daylight hours.
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Wanna buy a new car, cheap, guv? LHD, delivery miles only. I'll throw in a tin of T-cut.
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Sky News now saying that the crew deliberately "beached" the vessel on the sandbank as it was severely listing and could have capsized !
Last edited by: Skip on Sun 4 Jan 15 at 18:54
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>> Sky News now saying that the crew deliberately "beached" the vessel on the sandbank as
>> it was severely listing and could have capsized !
>>
I did wonder if it was deliberate as there's no way the local pilot would forget about the best known shipping hazard in the Solent, and there was talk of mechanical probems before it hit the bank.
1400 vehicles on board, presumably lashed down, but will those hold at a 45 degree list for days on end I wonder.
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>> I did wonder if it was deliberate as there's no way the local pilot would
>> forget about the best known shipping hazard in the Solent, and there was talk of
>> mechanical probems before it hit the bank.
>>
>> 1400 vehicles on board, presumably lashed down, but will those hold at a 45 degree
>> list for days on end I wonder.
>>
Loss of rudder/steering possibly, but would this cause the load to shift ? Surely it wouldn't have got up to much of a speed by then either.
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Would all the cars be lashed down? A normal car ferry doesn't do this , does it have different stability equipment to a ship like this?
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The load's centre of gravity must be higher in one of these than a cross flannel cherry where most of it's at roughly waterline level or just above. A steering fault could cause a heel/list even without bigger problems with load distribution/ballast.
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Was just watching a salvage expert on the news. He had led salvage operation on a similar but larger car transporter and said thqt although most of the cars were in damaged the manufacurers had all 1000 of them crushed to avoid any potential liability issues. I suspect the same will happen here.
They are also now reporting that the vessel was deliberately run aground when it started to lists high makes sense as it would have been unde the control of a pilot.
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>> Would all the cars be lashed down? A normal car ferry doesn't do this ,
they do when the weather is expected to be bad.
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>> Would all the cars be lashed down? A normal car ferry doesn't do this ,
>>
I watched an hour long program about one of these large ocean going car/vehicle transporters.
All the cars and all the heavy vehicles and plant equipment were lashed down and the crew regularly walked the decks checking the lashings during the trip.
Found a 4 minute taster of the program
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bbPJhS0byw
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>> www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11701063.FIRST_PICTURE__Inside_the_stricken_Hoegh_Osaka_container_ship/
That story and pictures would explain why a lot of the car carrying trains were cancelled pre loading and sailing.
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>> Would all the cars be lashed down? A normal car ferry doesn't do this
A couple of years ago we took the car ferry from Portsmouth to Santander across the once-notorious Bay of Biscay. It wasn't all that rough but the ship did roll a bit and bashed into some biggish waves. The cars were tied down and one worried about them a bit.
Decent breakfast I seem to remember.
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>>
>> >> The cars were tied down and one
>> worried about them a bit.
>
I remember crossing to France on the night ferry from Victoria years ago.
One was dimly aware of the noise of clanking chains as the carriages were shackled down before sailing.
It was the last remnant of the old days of rail travel. It was nostalgic later seeing one of the preserved carriages in the York museum.
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>> >> Looks quite close to a big illuminated pole warning about the bank??
>>
>> The big illuminated "pole" is actually on shore, its the coastguard lookout tower at Calshot,
>> now manned by volunteers, friends of mine (the ones who own the yacht I sometimes
>> crew for) do lookout shifts up there. Its only manned during daylight hours.
>>
Nah it's Fawley power station chimney - assuming we're talking about the one in photos like this:-
www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11700861.Dramatic_rescue_operation_as_cargo_ship_runs_aground_in_Solent/
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Remarkable similarity to this incident with a petty much identical ship:-
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Cougar_Ace
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Pretty sure that expert and the same incident referred to on TV.
"On December 15, 2006, Mazda announced that all vehicles on the Cougar Ace would be scrapped. After an extensive process to deploy all the airbags in each vehicle, all of the Mazda cars were crushed onsite at the Port of Portland by Pacific Car Crushing. The last Mazda car from the shipment was crushed on May 6, 2008."
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Spamette Major and her boyfriend have just driven over to Calshot for a gawp, not sure there's going to be much to see in the dark!
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Tempted to pop down there myself tomorrow. I know someone who works in the cafe down there - they ran out of provisions today!
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Here is a web site that lists the location of all ships, its the maritime version of flight radar 24
scroll the map to the solent to see the exact location of the ship
www.marinetraffic.com/en/
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>> Remarkable similarity to this incident with a petty much identical ship:-
>>
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Cougar_Ace
>>
My guess is that it was a ballast problem. A far from full load so lots of ballast needed?
Having seen several programmes of " Mighty ships" the control of water ballast is complex and
any failure of systems can obviously be fatal.
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A post on one of the fb groups for car transporter drivers suggests the ship was around 1/3 loaded, with JLR vehicles, BMW MINI vehicles and one Rolls Royce! It set sail from 22 berth, which is the main point of loading for the above. I have delivered single high-value cars there in the past.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30695349
Some interesting new info from today re cars / plant on board.
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Setting off to see friends, dip the dog and gawp at the transporter.
Was going to set off earlier to see what happens at High tide (12:30ish) as they try and refloat it, but thats now been cancelled, due to shifting load breaching hull, water on board. Today was the highest tide (4.1 metres) for the next week or so, so they wont be refloating it any time soon.
The longer it stays in the sand the harder the operation becomes. Very high winds promised Thursday/Friday/Weekend.
I can see this thing breaking up.
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The whole thing seems to be a nightmare scenario. Some very heavy plant onboard, shifting about, possible breach of the hull, poor weather due? And if it does break up, how will the spilled contents affect shipping in the vicinity? Looks like a massive insurance claim. Just hope the professionals get it sorted ASAP.
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Currently in the cafe at Calshot activity centre, got a good view of it from Lepe
Panic appears to have broken out, tugs rapidly appearing from everywhere and the ship is twisting around on the bank even on the falling tide
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Don't panic Capt. Mainwaring
As an aside whenever I visit my US friends I give a two hour classroom lesson to ten year olds. When in the UK for a 12 month teacher exchange one of her favourite programmes was Dads Army. It really is quite funny having a class of 10yo Californian kids shouting 'don't panic' when I stumble over my presentation.
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according to BBC news it "refloated itself and is now being towed to a holding position"
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>> according to BBC news it "refloated itself and is now being towed to a holding
>> position"
>>
Ships do not refloat themselves on a falling tide, assuming that Zeros assessment of the state of the tide is more accurate than his panic statement. Any movement of the grounded ship would be as a result of salvage work.
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Salvors Svitzer cited a combination of the tide and the water being pumped out of the vessel for its refloating.
The Marine and Coastguard Agency (MCA) said the vessel had "self-floated at high water" just before 14:00 GMT.
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>> Ships do not refloat themselves on a falling tide, assuming that Zeros assessment of the
>> state of the tide is more accurate than his panic statement. Any movement of the
>> grounded ship would be as a result of salvage work.
>
Not sure I follow that. Surely at it's simplest it's just like seaside beach boats that normally sit above the waterline but float on an exceptional spring tide. It hadn't sunk, just been grounded.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 18:54
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"Not sure I follow that. "
Certainly in the River Orwell - I can't say that it happens in other parts of the world - as the tide falls, any boats moored by the sides of the river are left high and dry on the mud.
For a boat to re-float as the tide is falling, something else has to be going on.
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>> For a boat to re-float as the tide is falling, something else has to be
>> going on.
Combination of a high (albiet by then falling) tide and fact that salvage guys were pumping out and possibly sorting out ballast irregularities?
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>> Panic appears to have broken out, tugs rapidly appearing from everywhere and the ship is
>> twisting around on the bank even on the falling tide
>>
It may appear to be panic to those unaware of the situation. If the ship has moved it is probably because of the activity of the tugs and the salvage crew adjusting the ballast of the ship.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 16:35
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I was there, I saw the ship move with no tug assistance and I saw the tug suddenly fire up to push and the other tugs appear from Southampton Water. They were clearly not ready for the ship movement You were not there but hey as you can remotely diagnose the cause of road accidents from 300 miles away I am sure you are right
I think high tide at Cowes was 1230
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Will we be seeing Mr Knowwun's youtube video?
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Zero, was it still listing at 45 degrees or had they righted it at all ?
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>> Zero, was it still listing at 45 degrees or had they righted it at all
>> ?
It was still listing badly - assume at least 45 degrees. That was what was extraordinary turning the sand on its side. Just got back, I'll see if any of the video is useable was mostly on long zoom with a strong wind blowing causing a fair degree of camera shake.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 22:11
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>> I'll see if any of
>> the video is useable was mostly on long zoom with a strong wind blowing causing
>> a fair degree of camera shake.
>>
You didn't mention the wind. The wind has a huge effect on a ship that size. You give us half the story and expect a sensible assessment of the situation you describe.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 22:18
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>> >> I'll see if any of
>> >> the video is useable was mostly on long zoom with a strong wind blowing
>> causing
>> >> a fair degree of camera shake.
>> >>
>>
>> You didn't mention the wind. The wind has a huge effect on a ship that
>> size. You give us half the story and expect a sensible assessment of the situation
>> you describe.
I have no idea of the wind strength in the lea of the Isle of Wight, I was 3/4 mile away on the mainland shore.
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>> You didn't mention the wind. The wind has a huge effect on a ship that
>> size. You give us half the story and expect a sensible assessment of the situation
>> you describe.
Translation: Had a Pavlovian reaction to a post by Zero but now recognise he might be right.
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>> Translation: Had a Pavlovian reaction to a post by Zero but now recognise he might
>> be right.
>>
I don't know what a Pavlova has to do with it but Zero seems to know as much about things maritime as I know about trains, which is stuff all.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 7 Jan 15 at 22:59
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>> I don't know what a Pavlova has to do with it but Zero seems to
>> know as much about things maritime as I know about trains, which is stuff all.
>>
1. I hear all the boats you were on sank!
2. Zero went down there and within a couple of hours the thing was afloat again!
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>> 2. Zero went down there and within a couple of hours the thing was afloat again!
3. Managed to turn the sea into wine.
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>> >> 2. Zero went down there and within a couple of hours the thing was
>> afloat again!
>>
>> 3. Managed to turn the sea into wine.
Not to mention the loaves and fishes. Well fish, chips and bread and butter anyway
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>> I'll see if any of the video is useable was mostly on long zoom with a strong wind blowing >>causing a fair degree of camera shake.
>>
Flog it to the BBC ?
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>> Will we be seeing Mr Knowwun's youtube video?
Currently in production in the MrKnowwun studio, world wide release in about 90 minutes.
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>> >> Will we be seeing Mr Knowwun's youtube video?
>>
>> Currently in production in the MrKnowwun studio, world wide release in about 90 minutes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M1IpH2kJ_Q
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>> Nice video.
Yeah, looks like the mutt was enjoying itself, the dog was having fun too!
;>)
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Give the dog some sea and its a happy bunny dog
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 8 Jan 15 at 17:59
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>> Give the dog some sea and its a happy bunny dog
Yes, the pooch is pretty cheerful and friendly looking.
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The "something else" other than salvage work that was going on could have been shifting sands.
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I recall an early report stated they didn't know what effect the ship would have on the sand during tidal flows.
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>> I recall an early report stated they didn't know what effect the ship would have
>> on the sand during tidal flows.
I would imagine a fair degree of scouring was going on around it
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>>
>> I would imagine a fair degree of scouring was going on around it
>>
I agree, but why when you claim to have crewed a yacht in that area and will have experienced the effect of the wind on a relatively small area like a yacht sail, and your camera, you don't seem to have considered its effect on the vastly greater area of the ship?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 8 Jan 15 at 08:00
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If you care to look back, you will see I never gave, attempted to supply or offered any explanation for the movement of the ship. I merely said that it had moved and it appeared not in a planned manner.
And by the way, I know as someone who has sailed over the bank, that the wind varies over there from the location I was viewing from. Without being there I couldn't say what it was doing.
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Any news why the ship run aground.? There will have been a Pilot on board,read a shipping article the ship was deliberately run aground.Engine problems?
Sad about the small Coaster which sank of the Scottish Coast.Carrying cement, which problaby shifted in bad weather nine sailors drowned.
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>> Any news why the ship run aground.? There will have been a Pilot on board,read
>> a shipping article the ship was deliberately run aground.Engine problems?
Unconfirmed report (supposedly a skipper on the red funnel ferry) says that the fuel was not properly balanced and an engineering failure of the ballasting system caused the ship to list, and was then driven aground deliberately to prevent it capsizing.
All unconfirmed
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There will be a full Marine Accident Instigation Branch report in due course but will probably take some time to complete. Publication late 2015 at best, though there may be a bulletin sooner in view of the accident's high profile.
www.maib.gov.uk/latest_news/hoegh_osaka.cfm
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Guardian report here:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/08/car-carrier-beached-solent-sandbank-refloats-itself
Includes a statement Officials said the boat was out of control briefly until it was stabilised and towed to safety.
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Officials said the boat was out of control briefly
A bit like ON then ;-)
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>> Officials said the boat was out of control briefly
>>
>> A bit like ON then ;-)
>>
You mean it glowed in the dark? :-)
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Nice video. But what you need is a drone.
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Or possibly a tripod.....
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............ and one of those furry ferrets to stick on your microphone. Yep - my guess is the wind blew the vessel off the bank!
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I don't have a drone, but yes I could do with one.
A tripod was out of the question while I was dog walking as well
I have a furry ferret (actually called a dead cat) on an external microphone, but hey there was nothing else to listen to other than the eefin wind, so thats what you got.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 9 Jan 15 at 17:33
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Very fine Matt cartoon today on this.
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I used to have a drone.
Divorced her years ago. Speculate to accumulate etc
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>> A tripod was out of the question while I was dog walking as well
Mount the camera on the dog and get a stability device to stop the camera shake.
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>> Mount the camera on the dog and get a stability device to stop the camera shake.
Have to be a St Bernard or mastiff to bear the weight of a Steady-cam...
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>> >> A tripod was out of the question while I was dog walking as well
>>
>> Mount the camera on the dog
I have done that, all you get is flapping ears
>>and get a stability device to stop the camera
>> shake.
It has one, you should see it when its turned off.
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Have you considered a combination walking stick / monopod. They provide a steady mount when held against something solid and is light and easy to carry, ours telescopes down to about 2' long.
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>> Have you considered a combination walking stick / monopod.
'My God! My God! The unapod!'
It's a quote. Can't remember where from, but seems apposite.
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>> Have you considered a combination walking stick / monopod. They provide a steady mount when
>> held against something solid and is light and easy to carry, ours telescopes down to
>> about 2' long.
I have one, but I forgot I had one.
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Have you thought about murdering the dog and using it instead of the dead cat (furry ferret)?
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>> Have you thought about murdering the dog and using it instead of the dead cat
>> (furry ferret)?
Its too big. Plus the dog can get me a dead cat any time I ask for one.
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"Plus the dog can get me a dead cat any time I ask for one."
By sniffing a flat one out at the side of the road?
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>> "Plus the dog can get me a dead cat any time I ask for one."
>>
>> By sniffing a flat one out at the side of the road?
Pffttt a mangy wet cold one? No a nice fresh warm one. The flat ones are no good, the hair needs to be perky and sticky up
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 10 Jan 15 at 21:23
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"No a nice fresh warm one."
Ah - the hound must be a Staffie in disguise?
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>> "No a nice fresh warm one."
>>
>> Ah - the hound must be a Staffie in disguise?
Not really, its fast and does not have an ounce of loyalty to its master.
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>>Plus the dog can get me a dead cat any time I ask for one.
Must be a darn sight smarter than my two retrievers were. At a combined weight of 95kg the best either of them could supply in the cat-hunting stakes was a bleeding nose.
Now if you wanted either birds or hedgehogs on the other hand....
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>> Must be a darn sight smarter than my two retrievers were. At a combined weight
>> of 95kg the best either of them could supply in the cat-hunting stakes was a
>> bleeding nose.
This dog is keen smart, fast and does not know the meaning of fear*. Its already taken on a couple of the local swans, - no damage to dog or swans, but they don't dare try and hiss at the dog again, specially now they know it swims better than they can - a kind of uneasy truce has been reached, and its fallen in a river with a rabbit it was chasing.
*bit of an underlying worry that - I have managed to get a reliable recall into it for most drive stimulus and a 50% working recall into its attempts to socialise with other dogs - specially those 200 yards away.
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Mine came to the call always - I could, and have, call them out of a fight. Out of hearing range they would come to hand/arm signals 100% - if they happened to look in my direction and see them.
Insofar as hunting/catching was concerned, they were immensely fast and powerful in straight lines. Neither of them could corner worth a damn.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 10 Jan 15 at 21:49
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>> Mine came to the call always - I could, and have, call them out of
>> a fight. Out of hearing range they would come to hand/arm signals 100% - if
>> they happened to look in my direction and see them.
Its funny. I have a solid recall in her from really high drive stimulus. I can recall her off the chase for any prey* yet the recall fails 50% of the time when she wants to socialise with other dogs. Now that could be dangerous, but she is very clever with body language, and adopts a very very submissive posture in the final few yards before meeting. Its getting better, but its not perfect. I could take her down a peg or two- that would fix it quickly, but I don't want to kill the confidence and keenness.
*I don't want to recall on every prey drive situation, happy for her to build confidence at the expense of a rabbit or squirrel or two, and she needs to learn on her own what she can take on and what she can't.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 10 Jan 15 at 22:24
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Difficult. I didn't have that issue. I was always worried because my retrievers looked like normal UK fluffy retrievers but were twice the size and bred as South American guard dogs, the first year or two in the UK was a little fraught.
As it happens nothing *too* serious resulted, although in that time people were bitten; one of my builders who picked up one of the girls after being told not to, and a roofer who brought his red setter into the back garden after having been warned against it. Sadly they very seriously injured the setter.
Consequently I was always very concerned about the ability to call and control.
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>> Difficult. I didn't have that issue. I was always worried because my retrievers looked like
>> normal UK fluffy retrievers but were twice the size and bred as South American guard
>> dogs, the first year or two in the UK was a little fraught.
Did you have many problems bringing the gogs to the UK?
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Only 6m quarantine. Which is barbaric, unnecessary and which I personally found very hard to take.
edit: oh, and ($£"(£& expensive.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 10 Jan 15 at 22:31
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>> Only 6m quarantine. Which is barbaric, unnecessary and which I personally found very hard to
>> take.
>>
>> edit: oh, and ($£"(£& expensive.
Its much easier in the EU now with the Pet passport scheme. Taking some malis over to Germany in March for a training seminar. It is still however expensive and an unnecessary pain. The Pet Passport scheme does not cover South America, no way round the quarantine there.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 10 Jan 15 at 22:36
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>>no way round the quarantine there.
Actually there is one. 45 days in the Falkands as a stopover.
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>> >>no way round the quarantine there.
>>
>> Actually there is one. 45 days in the Falkands as a stopover.
And hope the plane does not get diverted to Argentina.
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>> >>no way round the quarantine there.
>>
>> Actually there is one. 45 days in the Falkands as a stopover.
>>
Nice stopover, one flight a week to Chile IIRC ? plus one out of brize.
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>> >> >>no way round the quarantine there.
>> >>
>> >> Actually there is one. 45 days in the Falkands as a stopover.
>> >>
>>
>> Nice stopover, one flight a week to Chile IIRC ? plus one out of brize.
Stock up on Penguin meat as well.
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>> Stock up on Penguin meat as well.
>>
Never had it, wonder what it's like. I've had reindeer meat, that was pretty good.
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>> >> Stock up on Penguin meat as well.
>>
>> Never had it, wonder what it's like.
No idea, but it doesn't look good....
ask.metafilter.com/53331/What-do-penguins-taste-like
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>>Nice stopover, one flight a week to Chile IIRC ? plus one out of brize.
At the time I couldn't take 45 days out of contact. A pity, because I like the Falklands, my sort of place - hardly any people.
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And I had you down as a people person. Who'd have thought it
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I know, I hide it well behind a touchy-feely facade.
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>> At the time I couldn't take 45 days out of contact. A pity, because I
>> like the Falklands, my sort of place - hardly any people.
>>
Only problem is the UK--FI leg, can't I'd look forward to a trip down there. A short one maybe but not a long one
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>>can't I'd look forward to a trip down there.
There is no amount of discomfort that you could fit into 18 hours which would outweigh the pain of your dogs in quarantine for 6 months. It is a nasty, nasty time.
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It's a long flight, I more meant spending a long time down there. Plus unless you can indulge how would you get on the trooper?
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I once spent 3 months alone on an island off Turkey on my own - I loved it.
Even these days my family have become used to my ongoing and periodic need for isolation.
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>> Even these days my family have become used to my ongoing and periodic need for
>> isolation.
I hear they insist on it.
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>>I hear they insist on it.
That made my wife laugh.
A little bit too much, if I'm honest.
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>> That made my wife laugh.
Made me laugh too.
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Edit, you can fly direct but it's £2222 each.
At least it's generally warm in Turkey.
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>>you can fly direct but it's £2222 each.
Less than quarantine.
To be honest I never checked how much to ship the dogs, it just wouldn't have worked at the time. Though I suspect that 45 days on the Falklands with the dogs and then flights to the UK would have come in under the price of quarantine.
Quarantine was an eye-opener for me. Do you realise that's 6 months in a cage? No exercise, no walking around outside, no wandering or sniffing, 6 months in a cage. The cage is like a large kennel within a cage which was about 12ft square, or thereabouts.
Not great for two big dogs. They came out healthy but very unfit. And I reckon we weren't more than 2ft apart for about 2 weeks.
Although there seemed to be no long term effects.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 10 Jan 15 at 23:25
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>> >>you can fly direct but it's £2222 each.
>>
>> Less than quarantine.
Though I suspect that 45 days on the Falklands with
>> the dogs and then flights to the UK would have come in under the price
>> of quarantine.
True but I would imagine finding somewhere to stop in the FI with dogs wouldn't be easy(or cheap) but if you like being on your own I would think it ideal.
>> Quarantine was an eye-opener for me. Do you realise that's 6 months in a cage?
Can't say I did, although funnily enough this came up the other day, me and the missus spoke about what to do if I went overseas. Taking him would be best, but then leaving him with relatives does dodge quarantine. Not sure was the conclusion.
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>>what to do if I went overseas
How old is the dog and how long is the move ?
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>> >>what to do if I went overseas
>>
>> How old is the dog and how long is the move ?
>>
Nothing really on the cards (at the moment), we were just chatting ie if something came up. But if it did it would be 2-3 years, he's 18 months now.
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FWIW, even though quarantine is ugly, I think you'd have to take him with you. Its not likely to be quarantine in both directions, just plan ahead to minimise the impact.
Only you know his temperament and your relationship though.
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>> A pity, because I like the Falklands, my sort of place - hardly any people.
I guess you could even have been there FMR, or not far off in those frightful freezing dangerous southern waters.
As for the population, there may not be many of them but what are they like? I think we should be told. Squaddies of course, and sinister spooky underwater Navy chaps to keep an eye on our realpolitikal interests down there in the antarctic circle or near enough. Apart from the sheepshaggers that is.
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>> Only 6m quarantine. Which is barbaric, unnecessary and which I personally found very hard to
>> take.
>>
>> edit: oh, and ($£"(£& expensive.
>>
I would imagine it's a few quid, a couple of grand for two dogs ? Plus of course not seeing them. I take it was a while back though?
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It was 10 years ago now.
As I recall it was about £500 per dog per month, but that may not be correct.
In the beginning I used to visit them all the time until I couldn't cope with leaving them every time, and it seemed that parting was distressing them also.
For the last three months I didn't visit them until the rather glorious day when I collected them. A very, very happy day.
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Mind you, it then cost me another £6,000 to fly them back out here again about 7 years later!
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>>Did you have many problems bringing the gogs to the UK?
Having said that, then it occurs that we did have social issues. We just weren't used to looking after dogs the way you need to in the UK.
Conceptually its quite different; e.g. within your own grounds you have *no* responsibility for their behaviour out here.
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>> This dog is keen smart...
Any plans to go shooting with her?
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>> >> This dog is keen smart...
>>
>> Any plans to go shooting with her?
Not shooting, currently training her in Competitive Obedience and Field Trials.
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Competitive Obedience and Field Trials.
>>
I take it they just use dummies rather game at the field trials?
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No game exercises in Field Trials. Obedeince, agility, tracking, bravery, retrieve and present. In the final stages you can go for Patrol Dog which is a lower form of Shutzhund. (think police dog)
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Ah right I get it think I might have seen a bit of it now I you mention how it goes. Ours is in his first shooting season, it's good seeing them come on and finally click. He's fine at picking everything up bar rabbits he just noses them, but he was like that with all game at first. I'm sure he'll be fine next season.
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"A tripod"
My wife calls me that.
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>> "A tripod"
>>
>> My wife calls me that.
>>
As in Rolf Harris Jake the peg?
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>> My wife calls me that.
BiggerBadderthat doesn't have a ring to it.
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"BiggerBadderthat doesn't have a ring to it"
You'd need a tripod if your name was biggerbladder Dave.
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>> "BiggerBadderthat doesn't have a ring to it"
>>
>> You'd need a tripod if your name was biggerbladder Dave.
And biggerbladdered dave
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>> "A tripod"
>>
>> My wife calls me that.
>>
Methinks you might have misheard "tripehound". ;-)
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BBC News
Work to pump about 3,000 tonnes of excess water from the stricken cargo ship Hoegh Osaka has begun.
The Maritime and Coastguard Agency said the operation to pump water from the vessel's lower car deck started at 11:00 GMT. (!7 Jan )
It said divers found "no significant damage" to the hull of the ship, which is being secured by tugs off Lee-on-the-Solent, during Friday's inspection.
The list of the vessel has been reduced to 48 degrees, the agency said.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30882805
Hoegh Osaka could be moved by Wednesday
.........and is now listing at 47 degrees.
More than 800 tonnes of water in the hull has been pumped out. salvage team is preparing to pump water out of the car decks and into the empty fuel tanks on the ship.
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Has anyone heard anything about whether it is intended to get the boat back into commission, or if they will be scrapping it? Pumping sea-water into fuel tanks sounds a bit 'Oh well, that's it then'.
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>> Has anyone heard anything about whether it is intended to get the boat back into
>> commission, or if they will be scrapping it? Pumping sea-water into fuel tanks sounds a
>> bit 'Oh well, that's it then'.
Nope not at all. Oil tankers used to clean the oil tanks out with sea water, thats where your oil slicks on the beach used to come from.
Its sister ship that did the same thing was put back into commission. The fuel tanks (and the decks) will be cleaned of corrosion with a caustic solution, and then treated.
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It's not a common rail diesel with petrol in it...
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Visted Pompey on Monday with SWMBO and took a trip up the Spinnaker tower.
A beautiful clear day gave us great views over the Solent and Isle of Wight including the listing Hoegh Osaka in the middle distance ,support vessels around it but too far away to see a great amount even with bins....
Recommended .
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Now, with only a 5 degree list, its been towed back into port
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30943140
Don't buy a nearly new jag from a dodgy dealer in southampton
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 22 Jan 15 at 18:31
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>> Don't buy a nearly new jag from a dodgy dealer in southampton
Most of them will be LHD thankfully. Otherwise a real risk no doubt.
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When a similar event occurred with the "Cougar Ace" the 4,703 Mazda cars on board ended up being scrapped. I suspect the same will happen again.
www.autoblog.com/2006/12/15/mazda-scrapping-all-cars-aboard-capsized-cougar-ace/
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Thanks for posting the update, Henry.
Just had a look on MarineTraffic and Hoegh Osaka is now showing up; they must have switched her AIS transmitter back on again.
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A year ago and still no MAIB report but an anniversary update suggests publication by end March.
assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/569d076fe5274a112c00002e/HoeghOsaka_IReport1_2016.pdf
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Word on the street from salty sea dog friends of mine is that the jib/bucket of a poorly secured JCB swung round during the turn and puctured an important pipe that forms part of the ballasting system that keeps the thing on an even keel.
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Hoegh Osaka ship was 'unstable' when it left Southampton port
The BBC report
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35823182
Last edited by: henry k on Thu 17 Mar 16 at 00:47
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>> Hoegh Osaka ship was 'unstable' when it left Southampton port
What genius worked that out.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 17 Mar 16 at 08:31
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Whats surprising, in these days where we have bar codes, QR codes, laser scanners, weight transducers, and a ship that is trimmed automatically by computer, the chief engineer still guestimates the weight of the cargo on his fingers, and where to load according to the pattern of his breakfast cornflakes.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-35823182
In summary - slap dash preparations for sailing - unstable configuration of ballast, cargo weight "guessed" (Land Rovers assumed 2 tons each when they weighed more)..................an accident waiting to happen.
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>> In summary - slap dash preparations for sailing - unstable configuration of ballast, cargo weight
>> "guessed" (Land Rovers assumed 2 tons each when they weighed more)..................an accident waiting to happen.
>>
Second MAIB report in quick succession to bring the mind Herald of Free Enterprise and the quote about 'disease of sloppiness'. The other was into the collapse of a mezzanine deck on the Wightlink ferry St Helen.
assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/56b0ded8e5274a2508000010/MAIBInvReport1_2016.pdf
Same theme in most recent bulletinreport from AAIB on the Shoreham Hunter crash covering the organisation of air displays.
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The loading plan was quite top heavy, as the vessel had two more and and exacerbated by underestimating the weight above the main deck by c. 350t., most of which was on the 2 highest decks of 12 decks in total.
In total there was c 260t. more cargo than assumed. Modelling suggested that there was 635t. less ballast than recorded but this could not be measured, as unrecorded channges were made to the ballast during salvage.
The deadweight tonnage of the vessel (maximum weight capacity of cargo, fuel and stores) is c 17,000t, which includes ballast capacity of 7700t, and there was only about 5000-6000t of actual cargo.
The 'tonnage' quoted by the BBC of 51,000 sounds high in relation to the actual cargo weight but it is of course a volume measure and not an actual weight.
From the the report (my bold)-
"As Hoegh Osaka proceeded along Southampton Water , the master telephoned
the chief officer and told him that he thought the ship did “not feel right’’. The chief
officer replied ‘‘I’m working on it’’.
The vessel then made the first, right, turn, heeling to port but then righting as expected.
4 or 5 minutes later, approaching the sharper left turn at Bramble bouy:
Hoegh Osaka was making good a speed of 12kt when the pilot gave the following
sequence of orders to the helmsman:
2107:32 “Port 10â€
2108:20 “Port 5â€
2109:10 “Midships†immediately followed by the comment “She’s very tender
captainâ€
The ship progressively heeled to starboard and the rate of turn increased rapidly.
2109:36 “Hard a starboard’’
At 2110, SP’s coxswain reported to Southampton VTS by VHF radio that Hoegh
Osaka had developed a serious list and required assistance. The VTS operator,
looking at his radar, noted how quickly Hoegh Osaka appeared to be swinging
around West Bramble buoy.
At 2110:30, the pilot gave the order to ‘‘stop engines’’, and soon afterwards he asked
‘‘what the hell is the GM of this vessel?’’
An 'interesting' 5 minutes!
The ship has 15 ballast tanks. Only one had a working gauge
The only gauge that was operating at the time of the accident was that of the fore
peak tank. All of the other gauges had been inoperative since Hoegh Osaka was
taken under Wallem’s management in July 2014. The gauges were recorded as
defective in the ship’s handover survey and also noted as defective during Wallem’s
technical superintendent’s visit to the ship in November 2014. Repair of the defective
gauges had not been deemed a priority by Wallem as the ballast tank soundings
could be taken manually.
Each ballast tank was fitted with a manual sounding pipe. A notation was made in
the deck logbook narrative, daily, stating that soundings had been taken.
The Wallem SMS directed that ballast tank soundings were to be taken daily and
recorded in a ballast recording log. The ballast log was maintained on the chief
officer’s computer.
Ballast tank level records were produced, but the ballast tanks were not regularly
sounded. The last recorded complete entry in the chief officer’s ballast log signified
all tanks had been sounded during a port call on 17 December 2014, and indicated a
total of 5079.6t of ballast on board. For the same date, a recorded departure stability
condition indicated a total of 4137t of ballast on board.
For a port call on 16 December, the chief officer’s ballast log indicated a total of
4683.2t of ballast on board. For the same date, a recorded departure stability
condition indicated a total of 4127t of ballast on board.
It was a regular practice of the chief officer to adjust ballast tank quantity records to
compensate for the difference between calculated draughts and draught readings
taken before sailing.
1.6.5 Ballast movement recording
Due to the faulty remote gauges, the chief officer estimated the amount of water
in each ballast tank on the basis of the time spent transferring ballast to/from each
tank. He knew that the pumping capacity of the pump was 7t per minute, and
multiplied that pumping rate by the number of minutes that the pump was running
to calculate the quantity of ballast transferred. This figure was then added to or
subtracted from the figure that he believed was in the relevant tank at the start of the
operation.
The ship’s ballast management log indicated that ballast water had been loaded or
discharged from Hoegh Osaka on 11 separate occasions since the ship had been
under Wallem’s management. The last recorded ballast movement of this type was
on 8 December 2014, when an additional 130.8t of ballast was loaded.
The chief officer’s ballast log for 8 and 9 December indicated a total of 4314.6t and
4459.5t of ballast on board respectively, a difference of 144.9t. During a port call on
10 December, the ballast figure on board was recorded as 4067t.
Only a schematic, but there is a sobering looking illustration on p.36 of the report (p.46 of the pdf):
goo.gl/173TmI
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>> Whats surprising, in these days ......, the chief engineer still guestimates
>> the weight of the cargo on his fingers, and where to load according to the pattern of his breakfast cornflakes.
>>
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35830563
The diagram of the final loading arrangement is shown.
No one to blame !!!. It is totally unbelievable that a ship could be loaded that way, UNLESS it was it for speed and convenience and forget everything else ?
IIRC these ships call in several ports on their trips delivering cars AND collecting others so were decks left vacant for speed of loading the next batch en route ?
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Everything these days is to do with speed and turnround of vessels.Mistakes will be made.
We discharged a chemical ship once and the first mate had no sleep for 24 hrs.Fillipino crew used as cheap labour they are usually on board for six months.
Who wants to go to sea these days.
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"Whats surprising,......"
What surprises me is that massive ships with massive superstructures manage to stay upright at all, let alone in rough seas!
AC will understand what I'm talking about when I say they look about as top-heavy and stable as Dolly Parton.
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In a heavy storm any ship can sink.Cargo moves or engine failure or non experience crew.
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At age 7/8 took ship with my mother and sister from Glasgow to Colombo via Suez canal and Red Sea. It took more than a month.
Children suffered from the skin rash prickly heat, most uncomfortable verging on painful. I ate all the purser's Mars bars. He was a stern disapproving man. One is very easily intimidated at that age.
We passed by Malta, my mother's native country, but didn't go ashore there. What I do remember vividly is Port Said, clopping about in a gharry powered by a very knackered smelly old horse.
Ships had to wait until there was a convoy to go through the canal owing to alleged local insecurity. The canal was hemmed in on both sides by black (not yellow) empty desert. At the so-called bitter lakes half way along the canal, one's face was often stung by fast-moving sand particles, although there didn't seem to be much wind. It was weird.
Mind you it was 70-odd years ago, so perhaps some of the details have faded or mutated in some way. Indeed went to a nearby hospital today for a chat with the memory man there. Herself and the middle daughter are being a bit alarmist in my opinion. The memory quack, a nice chap, said he'd make another appointment for six months' or a year's time. They always go tut tut about one drinking and smoking. I was discreet about one of my smoking habits of course. No point in setting the cat among the pigeons is there?
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>> Whats surprising, in these days where we have bar codes, QR codes, laser scanners, weight
>> transducers, and a ship that is trimmed automatically by computer, the chief engineer still guestimates
>> the weight of the cargo on his fingers, and where to load according to the
>> pattern of his breakfast cornflakes.
He probably had porridge that morning! He also preferred to trim the ship manually, possibly linked to the non-working gauges so he could guess how much water was in the ballast tank by timing the pump running time - a method that seems certain, after a period of months, to result in contents wildly different to what has been calculated.
What also shocked me, skimming the report, was that the load planning was all done by the port captain, whose job it is, but he is supposed to report all changes to the master and chief engineer; but he saw little value in involving them so didn't bother. He also allowed extra cargo to be loaded, again without advising the master or engineer.
I can see why it's difficult to blame any one person, although that is not the purpose of the report. I imagine it will be career limiting for all three of them.
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Car Transporter. 45 Degree list in the Solent - BobbyG
